FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

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You’re listening to the Portrait System podcast.

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If you allow it, if you allow yourself to really flow in that love, people feel it and they want it. They want to feel that, too. They want to know that, first of all, they’re curious. Why is she so happy? Like, what is it about it? They’re curious. They want to find out. And then once they experience it and they they they feel comfortable to really be fully in themselves and what they love and show their passions. I think that’s how we get the best shots.

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This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one navigate the world of photography, business money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Today’s guest is Kirsten White, and she is full of inspiration and knowledge.

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Kirsten was a teacher for years in New Jersey, and she just got so burned out after teaching for so long and decided she was ready to make photography her full time career. Kirsten loves doing personal branding. She also does boudoir, and she has a 50 over 50 campaign going on. She talks all about how she built her business, how she provides fantastic service to her clients, and how she encourages her clients so much so that it helps her sales in the end. Kurson is fun and kind, and it was truly a joy to chat with her. I’m so honored that I get to present her interview with her today on our podcast.

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OK, please enjoy listening to Kirsten White. Hi, Kirsten White. Welcome to the portrait system.

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Hello there, Nikki. Thank you for having me.

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Oh, thank you for being here. I’m just so happy to be able to chat with you.

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Likewise.

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So I learned about you from Ashleigh Taylor Henning, who she does our Thursday bonus chats with Kevin Conde. And she mentioned you and I looked you up and I was like, oh, you know what? I really want to interview you. So, yeah. So welcome.

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Thank you so much.

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So Ashleigh, did your photos, right? Your your 50.

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And then I was turning 50. Yep. I was going out to portrait masters and I was turning 50. And I said, you know what, I want to do an epic fiftieth birthday shoot. And, you know, basically I want to practice what I preach. Oh, totally. I do a lot of, you know, milestone birthdays and I do a fabulous 50s campaign. And I wanted to be on the other side of it and get some fabulous photos. And she definitely delivered. I still use them. Oh, that’s so great. Yeah. Yeah. I’m turning 52 in September.

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So it’s time. Time for some more photos.

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Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I did fortieth photos, but I was pregnant, so there ended up being maternity photos. Yeah. Sue did them for me and. Oh, lucky you. I know, right. But yeah. 50. I can’t wait to do mine for 50. Yeah.

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Very, very cool. It’s an exciting time. And it really should be celebrated. I mean, it’s like you’re finally in your groove. Yeah. You know, you’ve made all your mistakes. You’ve learned from them. You kind of come into your own and it’s a great time.

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Yeah. Oh, that’s good to hear. I’ve been love and being in my forties, but I hear fifties or even better, so.

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Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or the forties or the filter starts to fade a little bit. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. I’m loving it.

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So by 50 it’ll be gone.

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Good. All right. So let’s talk about you. So you are in New Jersey. Do I get that right?

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Yes, I’m in Turnersville New Jersey. It’s southern New Jersey. So I’m closer to Philadelphia, maybe about 20 minutes across the bridge from Philly.

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OK, and how long have you been a photographer?

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I’ve been a photographer professionally since 2010. It’s been a hobby since I was I was a kid, but professionally 2010, I was doing it on the side and I went full time in twenty sixteen.

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All right. Well, take us back now and take us back to 2010 when you decided like, OK, this is something I want to do. I know you said it was on the side. So did you have another job or you know what was happening?

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I was teaching. I was a fourth grade teacher for 15 years, OK? And I always kind of had a side hustle and my side hustle at the time I was I was selling Mary Kay. Oh, yeah. Cosmetics. Yep. And so I was doing the makeovers. So I’d always do like a before shot and then an aftershot. And of course, since I love photography, I would really go all out for my actors. And people started. They were really loving their after shots. And so people started calling and, you know, wanting photos.

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They weren’t really as concerned with makeup as they were with the photos. And I said, oh, OK, I think I’m on to something here, but let’s see what I can do with this, as I’ve always loved it. I wanted to do it right out of high school, but my parents were like, absolutely not.

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That’s pretty common where it’s you know, you don’t go into the arts as a career.

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Exactly. You won’t make any money, you know, have fun with it. But that’s it. So, you know, I went to college, I majored in business marketing. And because I. Knew at some point I’m coming back to this.

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Yeah, so I did that, I made a career switch when my kids were young. I was divorced when they were they were very young. So with the marketing career, I would never see them. So I knew I would just never see them. So I always loved kids. I always tutored, always did those kind of things. So I went back to grad school and got a degree in elementary education, master’s degree and started teaching. Wow. And actually loved it. I really loved it and tried to juggle it for as long as possible. But I said when it gets too hard to do both and you know, obviously when the money’s matching or surpassing. Mhm. Then I’m going to make the leap.

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And I did.

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Well, I’m glad you brought that up about the money matching piece, because I think, you know, a lot of people feel like they want to quit their job, but they don’t know when the time is. Right. And I feel like that can kind of be a good like, you know, way to judge when it is time is like are you bringing in the same amount of income as your current full time job? And are you OK with that or do you need more or less or, you know, what does that sort of look like for everyone?

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You’re always going to need more. True. No matter how much you save up, and you’re always going to need more. But but it’s really important, especially, you know, I have children, so I didn’t want their lives to suffer because of my choice. So I kind of wish that I had done it straight out of high school or, you know, because when it’s just you, you can take all kind of risks. You know, you’re not trying to. It’s just me. You know, I’ll I’ll sleep on a couch and just make it work. But when you have a family, it’s totally different. And I remarried and my my husband is so supportive.

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And he was like, what are you doing? Like, you need to be doing this.

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And it took me a couple of years. You know, I would say, OK, this is my last year. I’m going to I’m going to end after this year. And when it came time to sign the contract, I would kind of chicken out. And I did that a couple of times until 2016. You know, it was time.

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Do you have any regrets?

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I don’t. Yeah, I don’t. I miss the kids sometimes, like just the energy of young people. They’re so fun. I really enjoyed teaching a lot. So it wasn’t a matter of disliking the work. It’s just that photographies always been a passion. And yeah, I just really wanted to see what I could do with it.

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Yeah, look at that. And here you are. That’s so cool. The reason I ask that is I think I think sometimes, you know, people look back and they regret not doing it. I’ve never heard anyone say they regret it. You know, making the choice to quit that job and to follow their passion like no one’s ever like shouldn’t have done that. You know what I mean? And it’s like, oh, I should have done that.

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Yeah. My only thing. I wish I had done it sooner.

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Yeah, it really is interesting. And it’s funny because I’ve interviewed a couple teachers who have who’ve made the transition. I mean, teaching is a very exhausting career. It’s fulfilling but exhausting.

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It is. Yeah, it takes a lot out of you. You get so emotionally invested. And it’s hard. You know, you don’t shut it off. You know, after the kids leave, you’re still rockin. You know, your grade papers, your planning, you’re setting up, you know, you’re really trying to figure out ways to help those who are struggling. And it takes a lot out of you.

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Yeah, I remember feeling like, OK, because I was a school social worker forever, and I was thinking, OK, I don’t have to be a school social worker as my identity anymore, as a social worker in general, as my because I did other, you know, in other capacity as well. But I was like, I can do philanthropic things and still feel like I’m doing my part and doing good and not have it be my like day to day grind. I almost feel like teaching. You could do that, too, you know, just do volunteer work and that sort of thing to kind of, you know, to give back in a different way without it hurting your sort of life.

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Not that’s hurting your life. But you know, Draining you. I get

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what you’re saying. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to give back, and I do incorporate that into my business. Different ways to to help populations that I want to help and causes that are near and dear to me. I’m a domestic violence survivor. And that’s something that I do every year. I volunteer and do family photos. Yeah.

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Tell me a little bit about that. Like talk about how you do that, because I think that’s something that’s so important, that isn’t spoken about a lot, is how we can use our services to help others.

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It’s so emotional and so fulfilling. I bring a make up artist and you know, we volunteer because a lot of times when women leave, when they wind up in a shelter, they can’t bring a bunch of stuff. They don’t have their pictures on. But, you know, they have themselves and their kids and that’s it. Yeah. So to have a photo, you know, it really means the world to them. Plus having the makeover, you know, feeling pretty and being photographed and having something. I send them prints that, you know, they can keep each each one gets a print of their favorite photo and they have that that they can keep with them.

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Wow.

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Yeah, that’s very cool. I think it’s just so important to do something that feels right to you that you’re passionate about. You know, I’m told and I’m speaking about like this, people who are listening out there like figure out what it is that feels good for you and don’t do it for what you’re going to get in return. Like just just do it because it feels good.

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That’s part of what I really, really love about it, because I can’t post those pictures. You know, women that are in shelters, you know, they don’t they don’t want people to know where they are. So.

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Right, right.

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There is no posting of it. And it’s just something between me and them. And it’s very special.

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Yeah. Yeah. I love that you do that.

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I think that makes it feel even more special to me, because it’s it’s not something that, you know, it’s not it’s not an Instagram opportunity. It’s it’s real because I’ve been there. I was blessed to have parents that, you know, welcomed us in and and let me get back on my feet. Not everyone has that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Wow. So I think we’re blessed to be a blessing.

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Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And. OK, so let’s talk about your business in general. Tell me about what do you shoot? What, lights you up, you know, who’s your target client and that sort of thing?

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I photograph women. I do beauty. I do business with branding and head shots. And I’ve recently been doing a lot of boudoir. And I just I love the transformation of the makeovers. And and just seeing women light up, the woman that I typically shoot is between 40 and 55. And she’s going through some kind of transition or she has recently gone through a transition, whether she’s starting a business, whether she’s leaving a marriage, whether she’s recently widowed or she’s just kind of awakened.

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That’s who comes in. And I get to show them the way I see them. As women were so critical of ourselves and we can be so hard on ourselves, but to see them through my eyes, you know, it’s just a beautiful thing just watching them get comfortable and light up. And majority of my clients are friends. We wind up being friends throughout my onboarding and the whole client experience. We communicate so much.

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Isn’t that so great?

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Yeah. There they become friends and they refer. So most of my business has been, you know, repeat clients and referrals. I’m just starting to get new people like through Google or Facebook. And and that’s exciting, too, because, you know, when the contact form it’s always, you know, how did you find me? And nine times out of ten, it’s a referral from someone or a referral of a referral and sometimes referrals from people I haven’t even shot yet. They may love my work and follow me and they refer me out. But you know this out to see Google pop up or Facebook.

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It’s really, really interesting.

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Yeah. So that was my next question was going to be, how do you market your business? And it’s so awesome. It speaks volumes about you and your business. When do you get so many referrals like that? But how did you initially get started? Like, how do you get that ball rolling with with getting the referrals?

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Well, initially, I think like everyone starts with family and friends. You start with you know, I was fortunate because I had a bunch of Mary Kay clients that, you know, I had photos. So I had something to market with with those photos and and a little a small base in addition to family and friends. So I went from there and just, you know, posting on Facebook my personal page. And I’m really guilty of not posting enough there. But, yeah, I just enjoy shooting so much.

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I was always shooting. And then I shot Philly Fashion Week back in 2010. I was doing a lot of everything and I did it all. I did Philly Fashion Week, and I made a lot of great relationships from people I met there that actually led me to meeting my husband.

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Oh, no way. How fun? Yeah.

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Yeah. A couple of singers that I met and we just clicked and I did a lot of work for them and and their clients. And I met my husband that way.

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Oh, I love it. How cool is that?

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Yeah. Yeah. Now, just just, you know, networking. And I really didn’t call it networking, because back then I didn’t understand networking. I thought networking was going out, passing out the business cards. But through the years, I’ve learned the value of relationships and just really leaning into the people that you meet and and make a genuine connection with. I think that way, you know, you don’t have those nightmare clients. You don’t have those situations because you’re already kind of clicking and then, you know, great people know great people.

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So a person that I shoot, her best friend is probably going to be pretty similar to her.

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Right. Right.

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Her circle is going to be pretty similar to her. So it really helps. And then, you know, putting myself out there more, not maybe with the end goal of networking for a business, but just to meet people. The more I meet, the more clients come. Well, I was

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going to ask you. You had. Said that a lot of your clients are going through some sort of, you know, rebirthing or stage in life, like do you market specifically like, you know, maybe through your social media posts or whatever, that if you’re going through something like that to come to you or how does how does that work? Is it just people show up with these things?

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I do. Kind of when I’m making my posts focus on what someone’s doing, I tell a little bit maybe about them and what they’re doing. And there’s the undertone of transformation, of new beginnings, that sort of thing. And it just speaks to people. And when they they call or they fill out a contact form and we do a consultation. And as we’re talking, the conversation always goes to, you know, how are you doing now? What’s going on with you now? Mm hmm. What part of your life are you where you want to be? Are you getting to where you want to be? And with my branding clients, I came across this book called Fascinate by Sally Hogshead, and it’s helped me and my business.

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And I use it with all my branding clients.

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Say the name of it again.

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It’s called Fascinate.

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Fascinate. OK.

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And the author is Sally Hogshead. And she has this. If there’s a free twenty eight question test, how to fascinate. And I have my clients do it. I did it for myself. It’s twenty eight questions really quick. It’s amazing how it just hits Dead On. It nailed me. Yeah. And twenty eight questions and it helps me with my clients just how we’re going to shoot the shoot. But the best thing is that it shows what’s fascinating about you. It’s not a personality test where it shows how you see the world.

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It’s a test where it shows how the world sees you interest and then you can maximize your strengths. It’s hard. You know, sometimes when you’re first starting in business, you know, you look to see like who’s successful and then you try to model after them. But what works for one person may not work for someone else. The best thing is when you’re bringing your full self to your business and to your brand. And after I took the test, I was like, wow, the way they pegged me, this is what I hear when clients send you the little love notes and they’re excited or at the reveal, they’re compliments that I get matched the results of this test.

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So I said, oh, I’m going to use this

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this is really cool because I was going to ask you like, OK, do you have a set, you know, questionnaire that you give to your client to fill out? I do. I do that, too. I, I got that. I think people are interested in hearing about the consultation.

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Yep. I once we do the consultation, I kind of give them an overview of what it’s like to work with me, how I work. But honestly, a lot of times the conversation it’s listed as a 15 minute consultation. It often goes much longer as we just start talking and laughing and just finding out more about them and what they’re doing. So at that point, you know, they go through what to expect and, you know, hey, are you ready to book? Is this something you’re ready to do right now? Once they book, then they and what I mean by book is they’ve paid their session fee.

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So they’re officially booked. We’ve got a date. Everything’s locked in. Then I send them a questionnaire and I have a separate one for branding. I have a separate one for my fabulous 50s. I have a separate one for boudoir. And basically, I’m asking them about how they see themselves, how others see them. Like I ask them for adjectives. What are three words that you would use to describe yourself right now? What are three words that those close to you would surprise would describe you as? What box do you think people put you in? I ask a lot of questions about their likes, like particularly music.

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I think music is so telling. I asked them if they could put together a soundtrack of their lives, which five songs would be on it. That tells me that’s interesting. Oh, yeah. Music is so telling. Then you have some songs where you and you hear it, you can remember where you were or what you were doing, and you’re with everything. Hmm. Yeah. For me, music and fragrance, those things bring up memories for me.

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Oh, totally. Totally. OK, so are you usually doing this on the phone or in person?

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Used to be in person. I do it on the phone now. I also sometimes do it by Zoom. It’s up to them if they want to do a zoom or if they want to do a phone call. Hmm. And so that’s the initial consultation. The questionnaire is something that gets emailed to them. So they have time to think about it. I give them a few days to to finish. Now they give me their size because I have a studio wardrobe. They give me their sizes, the colors that they like when they felt most beautiful, when they felt most proud of themselves. Those type of questions and also refreshments. What do they like? Because I always provide refreshments at the shoot and allergies.

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I ask them about food allergies. I ask them about makeup allergies, you know, products, because the hair and makeup artist are doing some things. I have a nut allergy. So there’s some makeup lines that I can’t use because they have nuts in them. Nuts are a great moisturizer, apparently. But, you know, I don’t want anybody to have any kind of breakout or anything like that.

00:20:10:21 – 00:20:23:21

Mm hmm. OK, so it sounds like you’re putting in a lot of work up front to to get them excited and to trust you. And I mean, it sounds like the buy in is there before they even show up.

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Yep, absolutely.

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Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Now, do you find yourself doing consultations and maybe they don’t book?

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I think it’s more a matter of it may not be right now. Yeah. Yeah. I lost somewhere because really they they almost all book. It just may not be right then sometimes, you know, it may be sticker shock and they might you know, I’ve had people book me and say, I’ve been following you for a couple of years. I’ve been wanting to do this for a couple of years. And then there’s some that book right on the spot. So I’d say maybe 70 percent, 75 percent book right then during the consultation. And then the others, it may be two or three months down the line or, you know, a year or so.

00:21:07:04 – 00:21:09:04

Yeah. And I keep in touch no matter what.

00:21:09:21 – 00:21:40:18

Mm mm. That’s so smart. And I guess I love hearing this because I think sometimes people forget that there is this kind of nurturing that happens. It’s not just they find you, they book you, because, you know, when when you are charging industry standard and a lot of people are used to much lower prices, we have to show them why. You know, we have to be the photographer and they want to book. And sometimes that means putting in that legwork up front to form that connection and build that relationship. It’s so, so, so important.

00:21:40:20 – 00:22:12:05

I’m so glad you said that, because we do this all the time. So we know we know our cost of goods. We know what we have to do. We know how many hours go in the public. Generally, they don’t know that most of my clients aren’t models. They’re everyday people and they. They don’t do shoots all the time. So if someone shot them and gave them the moon for two hundred dollars and then they see your price and they don’t understand why. Hmm. Mm hmm. Once you talk to them, especially once they come in, they see my studio.

00:22:12:07 – 00:22:43:12

They see it. You know what we do and how we do it. And then it makes sense. They’re like, oh, OK. You know, it makes a lot more sense. And they see how many times I’m really going to hold your hand through this. If we’re going to design a mood board, we’re going to get on Pinterest. We’re going to find out. We’re going to get inspiration. I’m going to bring something out of you that you want people to see or that you may have forgotten. Was there. Right. Right. They find all that and it’s like, oh, OK. And they understand, you know, my hair and makeup artists, they’re independent contractors. So they’ve got to be paid.

00:22:43:22 – 00:22:53:05

Mm hmm. They get it. But when we don’t talk about it, they don’t understand. Yeah. Yeah, it’s true. So I think it’s really our job to let them know.

00:22:53:24 – 00:22:58:14

Now, Kirsten, I’m going to guess that you have a pretty low cancellation rate.

00:22:59:05 – 00:23:29:27

I do. No, I really don’t have. I’ve had some reschedules. Not not too many. But life happens, you know. It happens. And with Covid, you know, I was so thankful that I’m still here for one thing, because I’ve seen a lot of businesses go under. I was so thankful for the relationships that I had that people were still booking. And they were just like, well, we’ll just schedule a date when when it’s safe to. Yep. Yep. And that was wonderful.

00:23:29:29 – 00:23:52:13

And it was wonderful to have clients where I could go back and say, you know, maybe they want more photos from from their shoot that they didn’t get. You know, so I was just thankful that I had that kind of relationship with the people that I was meeting and that they were still referring, that I was able to still book, not knowing when we’d be able to shoot. So so that was great, because here in New Jersey, we were down for three months.

00:23:52:24 – 00:24:22:05

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think I’ve shared the story in this podcast before, but say it again. Just this was early on in my photography career, at least when I was, you know, being full time. I had three cancellations and they weren’t reschedules. They were full blown cancellations. And I was like, Sue, what is going on? Like I am just I’m like devastated. And she’s like, where are you dropping the ball? And I was like, oh, shit, this is on me. I’m like, oh, no, let me think. Where am I dropping the ball? Where am I dropping the ball?

00:24:22:27 – 00:24:31:06

Is it fun to go back and figure that out, like whatever’s going wrong? Where did I drop the ball? Oh, absolutely. It’s hard. It hurts.

00:24:31:23 – 00:25:04:00

It hurts. But it’s also it means that I’m in control to make it better. Yes. Like I don’t have to rely on somebody else to fix it. For me. It is me. I would. And where I was dropping the ball was making that connection. Initially, I was afraid to get them on the phone. I wasn’t doing any sort of, you know, consultation like ahead of time, asking them questions about themselves and that sort of thing. And that’s what was happening is people weren’t. There was no buy in there. They weren’t feeling connected to me. So why would they? And as soon as I shifted that, it changed everything.

00:25:04:07 – 00:25:16:21

Even if it’s doing it through email, that’s OK, too. I’m a big email girl, both as a consumer and through my business. And even if doing it through email, that’s OK, too. It’s just some sort of bonding connection element has to be there.

00:25:16:29 – 00:25:24:03

Yeah, I agree. My thing where I was dropping the ball early on, I was afraid of talking about pricing.

00:25:25:19 – 00:25:36:00

I was afraid that they were gone and you know, just say, oh, well, never mind. So I would avoid it. And then you get to your reveal and ordering session and all of a sudden they’re like, what?

00:25:36:28 – 00:25:39:03

Yeah. So how much is it?

00:25:39:05 – 00:25:53:29

Yeah, totally. I want it. But you know, but oh, I don’t know about this. And I learned, you know, you have to talk about it so upfront. I have it on my website where things start. So at least they know like where we’re starting. And there’s something for everybody. But this is where we’re starting.

00:25:54:11 – 00:25:56:01

Yeah, that’s pretty common.

00:25:56:03 – 00:26:26:25

Now, you’re right. It’s very common. You know, even if they see on the website, I reiterate it, you know, when you get your welcome packet, it’s in there. Yeah. Well, when we’re doing the shoot and they’re seeing stuff on the wall and samples and I’m talking about how great this will look. You know, all this shot here with a great as wall art. You know what? We’re doing a special with this. And I just kind of bring stuff up, show them albums, show them different things. So it’s still in their mind. You know, when I send their link for their reveal, it’s attached.

00:26:27:07 – 00:26:33:13

So you just keep planting the seeds and keep talking about it. So there’s no surprise.

00:26:33:26 – 00:27:08:27

Yep, that’s exactly right. They should see our pricing like at least three times through the process before they book during like when I schedule the reveal, they see it then as well. So before they book, I talk about, you know, the packages. OK, don’t forget, if you get the biggest package, it comes with the black and whites and it comes with the sideshow and that sort of thing. Like I’m referring to the packages. And then before we schedule the reveal and then during the reveal, that pricing is pulled up right then and there. Right. So, yeah, it’s it is it’s a very, very important. And because sometimes people don’t read either you can sign it out, but they’re not looking at it, you know.

00:27:08:29 – 00:27:09:19

Exactly.

00:27:09:21 – 00:27:37:03

They’re excited. And that’s a good thing. They’re they’re so excited. They just want to get to the shoot. They want to get to the fun part. They don’t want to worry about that. So I know. But I think communication, you know, with the pricing and with everything makes sense. But even with, you know, if there’s a delay, if you can’t do the reveal, when you schedule the reveal or something, you know, people are fine as long as you let them know, as long as you communicate. Mhm. And that goes both ways, you know.

00:27:37:12 – 00:28:08:23

It does. It does. There is definitely something to be said about communication, and it’s not even like making excuses. Gosh, you bring up a really good point here. Communication is key, but I also think so. For example, I was gosh, I hope she’s not listening to this. I was higher looking to hire someone to do our trust in will, like, you know, something happened to my husband and I to leave for our kids and everything. And the person I wanted to hire, it was like three different times that she either missed our

00:28:08:25 – 00:28:41:09

appointment or one time she had the wrong time. And I am the first to give grace because trust me, I am not the most organized when it comes to my calendar. So I get it. But her excuses were like, oh, you know, you know what it’s like to have a baby. They didn’t sleep last night. So I overslept or like this or that, and it’s like I’m a mom, I get it, but at the same time, I’m about to pay you a ton of money to do my will and trust like this is incredibly important to me. And if you can’t show me that you are going to be, you know, responsible around it, I’m not going to hire you.

00:28:41:18 – 00:28:58:17

Exactly. Yep. I think the way in which we communicate is extremely important. Like if she had if she had said, Nikki, I value your time, you know, this was on me. Thank you for being patient with me. Can we please reschedule? I feel like I probably would have continued to move ahead with her.

00:28:59:00 – 00:29:23:04

It’s not always what you say, it’s how you say it. Yeah. And my mom really was was big on that. Growing up, we could talk about anything. Just the way you say it, though, you know, you remember who you’re talking to and it’s the way you say it. And I’ve carried that. You know, people want to know what’s going on. But to a point still, it’s still business. So you have to be professional.

00:29:23:12 – 00:29:35:00

Yeah. Wise words from your mom. Absolutely. It’s so important. OK, Kirsten, let’s talk about pricing. So tell me about your session fee and then do you have packages or a la cart and how does all of it work?

00:29:35:07 – 00:30:07:26

I have packages and ala cart and my session fee is 375. And that just includes the shoot. Then from there, I have packages with the reveal box folio packages, and I have albums, prints, wall art. But my prints are 249 each, and that includes the mounted print, matte formatted print and the digital. I also they save a lot more with their packages. My starting package has six photos in it and it’s twelve hundred.

00:30:08:13 – 00:30:14:09

And then my next one is sixteen for twenty four hundred and then twenty five for thirty two hundred.

00:30:14:20 – 00:30:22:01

Nice. That’s great. Is this for like across the board for all of your boudoir? Personal branding and beauty

00:30:22:09 – 00:30:46:03

boudoir is a little different. It’s a little bit higher because you know the albums, you know they want more. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, my starting is eighteen hundred and they get a ten image folio box or ten image little black book. They get the corresponding digitals and they get one of those viewfinder as a seven image like Peepshow.

00:30:46:12 – 00:30:52:21

Oh wait. Is that like the thing like when I went to the roller coaster park and we get a picture? How cool is

00:30:52:23 – 00:30:59:03

that? Yeah. If it’s just like that and they get seven images on it and clients love it, they absolutely love it.

00:30:59:25 – 00:31:06:03

That is so. OK, so where do you where do you get these things? Do they look like they’re like small cone? Do you know

00:31:06:05 – 00:31:16:16

what? It’s not it’s not the small cone. It’s the one where like you put a reel in there and then you push the button pieces to the next one. So there’s seven pictures on there. And it’s really

00:31:16:18 – 00:31:18:25

cute. Like you’re looking at binoculars, sort of.

00:31:18:27 – 00:31:19:21

Yes, exactly.

00:31:20:03 – 00:31:28:25

OK, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. OK, how cool is that? Is there a company that you order those from Image 3D. OK, I’ll have to look that up.

00:31:29:06 – 00:32:02:27

Yet they’re really cute. They’re really easy to make. And, you know, it’s nice for like a starter package or like an extra an incentive to prepay a package, those kind of things. But that comes you get one real with the first session that’s called my flirt. And then you have the vixen where you have twenty images and a Folio box or an eight by eight album. Get the digital files and you get to reels with your peep show. That’s thirty two hundred. And then the bombshell package is 5000. You get 30 to 35 images in a deluxe folio box or a ten by ten luxury album.

00:32:03:02 – 00:32:34:20

You get the corresponding digitals, you get three reels. So that’s twenty one images in your peep show and you get a calendar as well. Yes, it’s so interesting because I always love doing boudoir. People, you know, and they do the regular portrait session. I do three looks and sometimes they would do a boudoir set as one of their looks. And I was pretty much just shooting it when people would ask for it. And I thought, well, you know, I have the space, I’m in a bigger space, and it’s got like a loft area. And that’s where I have it set up, kind of like a hotel room.

00:32:35:08 – 00:32:59:13

And like I’m always in the space. I’m just using it when people ask for it. I started to promote it and that’s when I, I did Google and I found even like, you know, during Covid, people wanted headshots most and boudoir most. So that surprised me. I just I guess it you know, it makes you feel good. So in stressful times, that’s what was booking the most.

00:32:59:22 – 00:33:07:01

Yeah, very interesting. I’m loving this. The products, you know, just the unique products. Like you said, the the what did you call the photo?

00:33:07:03 – 00:33:09:20

Real. It’s a viewfinder. I call it a peep show.

00:33:10:00 – 00:33:35:15

That’s right. So between that and the calendar, I feel like you could even transfer that to family. So if you’re a family photographer, how fun would it be for like the kids to click through their family photos or to have that family calendar like. You could do this for different genres, you could do it for a wedding, you know, wedding clients or whatever, just I feel like it’s fun and it’s something unique that they’re going to show their friends and people are going to talk about it.

00:33:35:22 – 00:33:39:22

The high school grads like the calendars to take with them off to college.

00:33:40:04 – 00:33:42:23

Yeah, that’s yeah, that’s a great idea.

00:33:42:25 – 00:34:13:11

So they have some family photos. I actually started doing, you know, more family photos than I had been, because for a wall art, I find the families buy that more. Mm hmm. With my regular portrait sessions, a lot of times the women didn’t want to have a big photo of them, like, where am I going to put this? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, like, oh, where am I going to put this? They’re self-conscious. But they will put a big wall out of them with their husband or them with their kids. Mm hmm. Those kind of things. They’ll they’ll definitely put up for me.

00:34:13:13 – 00:34:22:10

I know of some photographers who sell portraits, huge wall art all the time. It just it just hasn’t worked out that way for me yet.

00:34:23:08 – 00:34:24:04

Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:24:10 – 00:34:26:25

But yeah, families, families are good.

00:34:27:12 – 00:34:34:00

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you found your niche here. Oh, you know what? Before I forget in your for your session for you, does that include hair and makeup?

00:34:34:11 – 00:34:54:12

It does. OK. Although I will say only about maybe 50 percent opt for hair. OK. Everyone wants the makeup, but. Something about my clientele, sometimes they just want their hair stylist, so they want to make an appointment with their hair person and then they come in and do the makeup, which is fine.

00:34:54:22 – 00:35:09:12

Yeah, that’s totally understandable. Hair is such a personal thing. It really is. And if you have a stylist who you don’t know if they’re going to do it the way you like, it’s like I don’t know. I feel like makeup is a little bit easier to have someone else.

00:35:09:14 – 00:35:21:25

Yeah, they’re more comfortable with it. But I tell you, the ones that do come in, I work with two hairstylists that are phenomenal and they love it. And actually they start going to to them to get their hair done on a regular basis.

00:35:22:00 – 00:35:22:18

Not yeah.

00:35:22:27 – 00:35:23:12

Yeah.

00:35:23:17 – 00:35:28:24

Oh, that’s great. Good way to cross promote you. I’m sure your stylist likes that as well.

00:35:29:00 – 00:35:58:20

They do. They do. I’ve been really blessed and especially like lately, the past maybe year and a half, the more I started leaning into myself and my strengths and not trying to, you know, do what you think the industry says do. And I’ve been attracting the best people and and that not just clients, I mean hair and makeup and just stylists, a lot of creative people. And we get to collaborate and we get to boost each other up.

00:35:59:07 – 00:36:16:12

Yeah. You know, Sue and I talked a bit about this on episode 85, about manifestation. And just like the life of your dreams and something that she really hones in on is when you are finding so much joy and there’s authenticity and what you’re doing. People can feel that and they’re like attracted to you.

00:36:16:21 – 00:36:17:19

Yeah, they can.

00:36:17:21 – 00:36:20:06

Yeah. And it sounds like that’s what was happening with you.

00:36:20:10 – 00:36:47:05

I’ve had a lot of clients say that, like how much they enjoy just they’re like, you’re in your zone. This this is you. This is what you’re supposed to be doing and it’s contagious. They could feel it and it transfers. So, yeah. Yeah. Loving what you do. That’s that’s something that, you know, I think they don’t teach enough in business school. You know, because when you do what you love and they say the money will follow. It’s really true.

00:36:47:11 – 00:36:49:08

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:36:49:10 – 00:37:19:13

If you allow it, if you allow yourself to really flow in that love, people feel it and they want it. They want to feel that, too. They want to know that, first of all, they’re curious why she’s so happy. Like, what is it about it? They’re curious. They want to find out. And then once they experience it and they they they feel comfortable to really be fully in themselves and what they love and show their passions. And I think that’s how we get the best shots. Yeah, that’s why it’s worth investing so much time, getting to know them and getting to know what’s important to them so I can bring that out.

00:37:19:22 – 00:37:27:15

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that. You mentioned in your studio you have a loft like that. Sounds pretty amazing. Tell me about your studio.

00:37:28:03 – 00:37:47:00

My studio is oh, I love it so much. It’s in the same. It’s in like an office park. And I was in there before my first studio I was with. It was a real estate company and I rented an office in there and the real estate company was so small. But I created magic in that little, small, little tiny space.

00:37:47:02 – 00:37:48:09

It’s amazing what you can do.

00:37:49:24 – 00:38:25:08

I would pass the space that used to be I used to be a hair salon and I would pass it. And I’m like, oh, you know, I want to get to know them because maybe we can collaborate. They can do hair and makeup, you know, for the shoots. And I would pass it and pass it. And one day there was a for sale sign for rent sign for rent or sale. And I’m like, OK, well, let me check it out. And I’m like, oh, you know, it’s so big. I don’t know. It’s not going to work. But you know, when something’s meant for you, it’s meant for you. And I mean, within a week I had the keys. It was it was great. And they let me change everything I needed to change upstairs.

00:38:25:10 – 00:38:44:10

I turned that into I have like a wardrobe room and it just second makeup room if I need that. Like sometimes if I’m doing a mother daughter, I can have someone being done upstairs and someone being done downstairs. It’s just it’s everything that that I wanted. It’s from my vision board. Wow. It’s the space I wanted. Yeah.

00:38:44:18 – 00:38:46:20

Is it natural light to shoot naturally?

00:38:46:28 – 00:38:48:10

Now I use strobe.

00:38:48:12 – 00:39:00:16

I used to use strobe. OK, I was looking through your photos. And to me it looks like another I mean, both, you know, are beautiful ever, but it really does. Your photos to me look like natural light. It’s interesting.

00:39:00:18 – 00:39:02:22

I try hard to make them look like natural light.

00:39:03:02 – 00:39:04:22

Yeah, you’re doing a great job.

00:39:05:22 – 00:39:12:24

I don’t want it to look too, you know, harsh. And I try to soften it. And thank you. Thank you so much.

00:39:13:06 – 00:39:27:09

Yeah, very cool. Oh, my gosh. OK, so is this a studio that you just you you just use it to share with anyone? You said you have a studio wardrobe. Is it really decked out like. Tell me a little bit more.

00:39:27:19 – 00:39:58:05

It’s just me. OK, I don’t rent it out. And I’ve had photographers ask, but I’m really protective of it. Yeah. Yeah, Understandable. I remember the days when I was renting studios and just seeing how people. Will treat things that aren’t theirs. They don’t treat them well. Yeah, sometimes and I just I just don’t want to be bothered with any of that. So now it’s just me and Let’s see. What else can I tell you about it? There’s I have a lounge area when you first come in.

00:39:58:17 – 00:40:33:13

And then I have hair and makeup area. The main shooting area, there’s a bathroom downstairs and upstairs. There’s a small I wouldn’t call it a kitchen. We have a refrigerator and a microwave. It’s like a long kind of galley kind of thing. So it’s not like an eat in, but I can, you know, prepare things in there and like snack trays and things. And then upstairs is the wardrobe room, which I have a lot of fun, especially when we were on quarantine, ordering things and finding cute stuff for the studio wardrobe.

00:40:34:08 – 00:41:01:20

There’s a storage area and then in the loft areas where I have a bed and nightstands and my husband made this nice like canopy that I use and it can come down, doesn’t have to be up for every shoot. But women like it and they like to. He put it up for me. I was doing a bridal boudoir shoot and he he put it up and it’s so soft and pretty and people ask for it. So I use it almost every shoot. I also used to V-flats up there.

00:41:02:13 – 00:41:04:24

What about the clothing? You said you have a studio wardrobe.

00:41:05:00 – 00:41:37:21

Oh, yes, the clothing. I’ve gotten them from a company called Poshmark. You can get great deals. And I always go for the new with tags. Also, some photographers in the group have had sales, and so I’ve gotten some things from there. I also do rent the runway and rent the runway has sample sales sometimes, and I’ve bought things that way. Yeah, I also use rent the runway. If there’s something that I don’t have and they don’t have, and it’s a special look that they want. I’ll rent and have it sent to the studio.

00:41:38:00 – 00:42:08:17

We have a FedEx box right outside because I’m in like an office park. So there are lots. It’s all businesses. There’s plenty of parking. That’s nice. Post offices nearby. And then I have the things so I can just drop it off. Yep. So the client doesn’t have to worry about anything. That’s my my true goal since I cater to women and women do so much for everybody and themselves. Last, you know, if you start running out of time, what goes something you want to do? And that’s what goes for industry. So when they come in, I want them to really kind of have an oasis.

00:42:08:19 – 00:42:17:04

And I want them to feel the way the people in their lives feel. I want them to get that experience where it’s all about them. You don’t have to worry about anything.

00:42:17:07 – 00:42:25:03

I love that. You could you could use that like that language on Facebook ad or something as a new tagline.

00:42:25:15 – 00:42:36:25

It’s an oasis. Yeah, because, you know, think about it. Think about all the things that you do for your family. And we do it out of love. We enjoy it. But wouldn’t it be nice to just have a day when it’s all about you?

00:42:37:04 – 00:42:39:03

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

00:42:39:25 – 00:42:52:00

You know, we talk about. Well, what do you how do you want to look? Which which images inspire you? OK, we can make that happen. I’ll take care of it. I have something in my studio wardrobe or I’ll rent something that you can wear. You just have to show up. Love it. Easy.

00:42:52:21 – 00:43:10:03

Yeah, I love it. I love it. It just sounds like you’ve created such an amazing business for yourself. I just I love it. And when September comes every year, are you kind of like August whenever you start school usually are you just like, oh, I don’t have to do that. I get to do this. Yeah, I am.

00:43:11:17 – 00:43:26:13

I am. I’m so thankful. It’s it’s like every year gets better and better. And I love that. Having your own business, it can grow as you grow. It can evolve as you evolve. And I’m so happy with the way things are going and it’s just getting better and better.

00:43:26:20 – 00:43:41:23

That’s so great. I’m so excited for you. I’m so excited. Thank you. Yeah, well, thank you for sharing everything with me. I do have a couple more questions that I always ask at the end, if you don’t mind answering them for us. OK. The first one is What can’t you live with that when you’re doing a photo shoot?

00:43:42:07 – 00:43:44:05

Oh, definitely music.

00:43:44:07 – 00:43:50:10

I knew you were going to say that because of when you were asking about the music and your. Oh, yeah. I was like, she’s going to say music.

00:43:50:15 – 00:44:11:29

Definitely music. And you know what? I do have a second thing. I got one of those spider holsters. And I have to have that. I did a location shoot and I forgot to grab it. I went back. Yeah. And grabbed it because it’s just it’s so convenient. And I just don’t feel like it’s just part of my routine. I snap that thing on and it’s part of my costume.

00:44:12:14 – 00:44:21:26

No, I’m with you. I’m like naked without it. I can’t do it without it. Hmm. That’s awesome. OK, number two, how do you spend your time when you’re not working?

00:44:22:00 – 00:44:54:01

Oh, well, I’m not working. I am hanging out with my husband or talking with my kids. My kids are grown now. My daughter is twenty five. My son is going to turn twenty four on the 26th of this month. So I like to spend time talking with them. My husband, I we like to unwind by you know, we watch TV, we DVR, everything. And we got to unwind at the end of the night when we watch something that I usually fall asleep on, but that’s kind of our thing. We like movies and stuff like that. Yeah, but yeah, like we’re we’re homebodies.

00:44:54:03 – 00:44:58:01

You know, I like to go out and have fun, but I also love I love being at home.

00:44:58:06 – 00:45:00:01

Nothing wrong with that, that’s for sure.

00:45:00:23 – 00:45:02:10

I’ll be happy when you can travel more.

00:45:02:18 – 00:45:04:07

Yeah. Yeah. No kidding.

00:45:04:12 – 00:45:09:00

I ventured out a little bit. I’m not into full, full mode yet. Yeah.

00:45:09:02 – 00:45:17:02

Yeah. Hopefully everyone will get there. OK, number three is what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:45:17:16 – 00:45:41:20

Actually is the name of a new project I’m starting, but it’s an ancient proverb and it says, When sleeping women wake, mountains move. Oh, I like that’s kind of what I built my business on, because I feel like I feel like I was sleeping on myself for a long time. And when you wake up to yourself and what you can really do and you and you, you act in it and move in it, it’s a beautiful thing. Mm hmm.

00:45:42:09 – 00:45:53:16

Mm hmm. It sure is. It sure is. What a beautiful quote. I love that. OK, and last but not least, well, I have two more, really. But one is what would you tell people who are just getting started?

00:45:53:26 – 00:46:26:06

I would tell them to shoot everything. Mm hmm. The more you practice, the better you’ll be and the more you’ll be able to nail down your style. Don’t don’t imitate. We all kind of start out imitating. I mean, I remember in high school, I, I love magazines, drives my husband crazy because I still love magazines. They’re everywhere. I don’t want to throw it away. And I would try to replicate to replicate. You know, you’re looking for the catch light to see like how they lit it. You know, you’re trying to figure it out. So you start off that way until you get your legs. And the way you do it is just just shoot.

00:46:26:19 – 00:46:46:27

I used to shoot everything. I learned what I don’t want to do ever again. Like weddings I don’t ever want to do. I don’t ever want to do that, ever. I mean, maybe I would do an elopement, something small, but. Oh, but you don’t know what you don’t like until you try it. And you don’t know what you love until you try it. So I would say shoot everything. Shoot as much as you can.

00:46:47:06 – 00:46:53:06

Yep. Yep. That’s great advice. And then last but not least, how can people find you online if they’re looking for you?

00:46:53:15 – 00:47:07:03

Oh, OK. My website is Kirsten White photo dot com. My Instagram is Kirsten White photo. And on Facebook, Kirsten White from my personal page and Kirsten White photography for my business page.

00:47:07:13 – 00:47:12:15

Awesome. Perfect. And that’s Kirsten, K I.R. S T E N. I just want to make sure people.

00:47:12:17 – 00:47:13:17

Yes. Yes.

00:47:13:23 – 00:47:24:02

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you again. I just I appreciate you sharing everything and I love the direction that you’re heading. And just keep me posted how things go.

00:47:24:11 – 00:47:26:28

Okay. Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun.

00:47:27:06 – 00:47:28:20

Awesome. All right. You take care.

00:47:29:04 – 00:47:30:14

You, too. Bye bye.

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