FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

 

00:00:00:02 – 00:00:02:08

You’re listening to the Portrait System podcast.

00:00:02:17 – 00:00:20:03

I like to say photography found me because it did, and it is what changed everything like it’s what showed me that I can be strong and I can be in the public eye if I want to and I can speak my truth and I can make money and I can photograph women and they pay me for it. And it’s amazing like it’s been such a great ride.

00:00:22:19 – 00:00:52:29

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Today’s guest is Damaly Shepherd, and she is such an incredible person to chat with.

00:00:53:08 – 00:01:32:10

Not only is she just a great conversationalist in general, but she gave some really terrific business advice. Damaly shares with a specific thing she does to be the photographer? People want to book in the saturated market of New York City. She grew her business rather quickly and went from $50 photoshoots to a starting price of $6500 per shoot. And she also talks about how she includes personal styling in her $15000 VIP package to Damaly’s specialty is personal branding, particularly with BIPOC folks, and she has created just such a beautiful business and a beautiful portfolio, and I’m so, so excited to introduce you to her.

00:01:33:01 – 00:01:39:06

OK, here she is. Damaly Shepherd. Hi Damaly. Welcome to The Portrait System, how are you?

00:01:39:15 – 00:01:41:24

I’m so good. Thank you for having me, Nikki.

00:01:42:08 – 00:01:49:24

I’m so excited to have you here, and I know I just said this to you and we were just doing tech stuff, but you have such a great voice, which I’m really excited about.

00:01:50:10 – 00:01:53:13

I’m so flattered by that. I give good voice. I appreciate that.

00:01:55:16 – 00:02:08:20

OK, so before we get started with your story and just what you want to teach everyone, can you just give a little bit of a summary first? Where are you located? And second, what do you focus on most in your portrait business?

00:02:09:12 – 00:02:39:01

That is an awesome question. So I am from Queens, New York. I shoot in Brooklyn and I focus on portraits and personal branding. And what I’ve done is kind of follow what Sue’s always said, and I push my portraits to my personal branding clients. So my personal branding clients come to me now for a more editorial fashion like portraiture for their brand. So it’s kind of just portraits, but that kind of gets our write it off and they love doing that, and it’s very fun for me too.

00:02:39:13 – 00:02:52:09

Yeah, OK, that’s awesome. And I love, love, love your branding work. You just it’s almost like a like like you said, like there’s a fashion influence. It’s just like a fresh take on personal branding. I really love it.

00:02:52:26 – 00:02:54:12

Thank you. I appreciate that.

00:02:54:19 – 00:03:03:12

So I guess my question for you then is, have you always been a photographer? Because, well, OK. So I did see on your website, it’s only been like four years, right?

00:03:03:20 – 00:03:14:24

Yeah, this is year five. It’ll be five years this summer. So that is really exciting and fun and like three years of me taking it really, really, really seriously. So, yeah, yeah,

00:03:14:26 – 00:03:38:25

yeah, that surprised me when I saw that because I was thinking that you are just someone who has been doing this for decades, like you just really come off as and that’s not to say that we can’t achieve a lot in three or four years because I did as well. There are so many people who are like killing it just after a year or two, so I’m not trying to downplay it. But there’s something about your confidence in the way that you are as a photographer that I would have assumed you’ve been doing this for a long time.

00:03:39:11 – 00:03:52:09

Thank you. I think, well, I really attribute a lot of it to finding Sue. And all of you guys wonderful folks like early on in my journey. So SBE was the very first photography education that I purchased.

00:03:52:11 – 00:03:53:15

Oh, OK.

00:03:54:03 – 00:04:22:08

So right from the beginning, I think I bought like a book before, but it was like, you know, when I really decided that I wanted to work with women and I really wanted to figure out what portraits were like and someone was like, Hey, check out this Sue Bryce lady. You kind of had me from the hook. So I’ve been learning my camera game and lighting and levelling up kind of just like as we did over the last few years. And I attribute most of that growth to just hitting it hard and being really deep in the coursework.

00:04:22:21 – 00:04:51:17

Yeah. And it really is amazing education. And when you can fight an instructor that you relate to, it’s so priceless. And I try to tell people that like it does. I know I’m obviously team Sue Bryce like I had learned, so an immense amount from her. But there are different instructors that will speak to you, and it’s just finding an instructor and a mentor who who, their personality or what they teach, you know, just something that resonates with you. And I think it’s super important.

00:04:52:01 – 00:05:25:14

Absolutely. I think, you know, like in prepping for this, I was like, Well, what do I really think about my journey? And I think that Sue really called to me because she teaches portraiture in business, but she teaches it in this way. We’re like, You’re kind of healing yourself at the same time. And so that’s exactly what it did for me. Like, I, you know, people don’t believe me, but like five years ago, for me to be showing up online and talking about personal things and and photographing and sharing my work right, like you could not have paid me well, maybe.

00:05:25:16 – 00:05:44:03

But you know, it definitely wasn’t something that I felt great about and SBE like just listening to the way that’s who teaches and it kind of calls you forward. And I needed that in that moment. So it’s like that personal journey kinda aligned directly with my professional journey and that that’s been really awesome.

00:05:44:13 – 00:06:11:10

I love that you shared that, and I think that it almost feels like being an entrepreneur is such a mind fuck in so many ways that being on that kind of personal journey, along with learning business, it just coincides so well together. And it just I feel like people who are who are embracing both of those parts of all of this often can like see more success more quickly when they are addressing everything. Do you think? Yes.

00:06:11:12 – 00:06:51:24

Yeah. Yeah, because it’s like it’s one thing to want to figure out how to do your camera settings. But then for me, it was like, OK, but you’re really afraid of like being seen and you’re terrified of like, for me, I also was afraid of taking photos before all this. Art and photography helped me figure out myself like it really is a journey on both sides, so I think I was personally. Ready to change my life, and I like to say photography found me because it did, and it is what changed everything, like it’s what showed me that I can be strong and I can be in the public eye if I want to and I can speak my truth and I can make money and I can photograph women and they pay me for it.

00:06:51:26 – 00:06:54:15

And it’s amazing, like it’s been such a great ride.

00:06:54:27 – 00:07:10:13

Oh, that resonates so much with me, and I’m sure with so many of our listeners, it’s like people get to the point. Like you said, it’s not just about it’s not just about switching careers or whatever it is. It really is about changing your life and just designing a life that you really enjoy and love.

00:07:10:21 – 00:07:13:00

That’s exactly what it was for me. Yeah.

00:07:13:02 – 00:07:16:03

So tell us a little bit about that. Then what were you doing before?

00:07:16:06 – 00:07:47:24

Sure, I was in H.R. for a tech company before I went full time into my photography, and I was just unhappy like everyone else’s story. I at the time I was twenty nine, so I was just let you all clock my age. I was twenty nine and I just felt really depressed and overwhelmed. And it’s really because it sounds really cliché. But I always had this feeling that I was meant to do more with my life and clocking into that nine to five and dealing with people that I didn’t like did not feel aligned with that vision for myself.

00:07:47:26 – 00:08:22:02

And I just I got so fed up that I was like, Fuck it, you know what? Let’s just figure out how to start a business. And I went to school for  TV and radio communication arts, and my uncle had gifted me a Nikon. Like a kit. A kit Nikon for graduation and I never touched it. I never touched it because I was still in the producing end when I when I was in school, like I wanted to be Shonda Rhimes or Ava DuVernay. And so we were going to Bali and I was like, You know what? In researching Bali, I was like, Wait a second.

00:08:22:04 – 00:08:58:21

People get paid to be on YouTube and take videos like I could. I know my camera. I went to school for this. And from there I was just like, OK, OK, I’m not going to be a YouTube vlogger because it’s much harder than I thought it was. But I did realize that I wanted to focus on women and that relationship between them and the camera because I hated myself in the photos. In that moment, I did not like it. And then when I would take my sisters out like it would be the same thing. So I got really curious, like, what the hell is up with this? And that just took me on the photography path, which is what made finding Sue Bryce super aligned.

00:08:59:05 – 00:09:11:02

Wow. Wow. OK, so then I mean, obviously you had this like other career happening, whatever. At what point did you quit all of that and start making money with photography?

00:09:11:25 – 00:09:45:15

OK, so I’m a jumper before it all aligned. So everyone has really great advice where they’re like, Make sure you have money saved and all. That’s awesome. Do that. But I’m kind of like a big thinker, big jumper. So I it was like my three year anniversary at this job, by the way. Fabulous job with great benefits and all the good things, right? But I was just super unhappy there. So here is the fun part about this story for me is my first year of photography, so I spent a lot of time practicing first right and just doing a bunch of free shoots.

00:09:45:24 – 00:10:07:25

And then I graduated to charging $50 a photo, which was so hard for me at that time, like literally the hardest thing I did. And then like I, you know, did the 12 week work up, I didn’t finish it, but I took what I needed to take and and I had my first client who I said my prices to, and she booked it and I had a fifteen hundred dollars sale and then nice.

00:10:08:09 – 00:10:09:15

Sorry, I just got really excited.

00:10:10:15 – 00:10:15:25

But that’s awesome. But guess what I did? I stopped photographing people for the rest of the year.

00:10:16:11 – 00:10:21:05

Oh, wow, OK, this is so not what I was expecting. You like however.

00:10:21:12 – 00:10:52:02

Yeah, it’s it’s I know it’s a detour. I literally like it freaked me out so much that I found so many excuses around like, well, why I shouldn’t be shooting. And a year later, I was like, Oh, like, I had that sale. And it scared me so much that, like, what I wanted was possible and I didn’t feel ready for it, that I totally shut it down. And that’s like literally what I did. It was it was really not. So I kind of like dealt with that. I also worked one on one with the life coach, which is super helpful, and they kind of helped pull me back in.

00:10:52:10 – 00:11:07:01

And then I dug back into the coursework and I made $19000 the year after that. And then in 2020, I made almost 60000. And then in twenty twenty one, I made one hundred and forty thousand.

00:11:07:03 – 00:11:35:06

Wow, Somali, that’s incredible. I mean, that’s a really a really impressive journey. I want to back up just a little bit because you some important things in there. So you you mentioned you went through the 12 week course. And just for people who are listening who might not have any idea what we’re talking about, that’s actually we call it the 90 day challenge. Now it used to be called the 12 week start up. Now we switched it to 90 days challenge. So that is on the website. Like if you’re a member, you get access to the 90 day chat. So that’s what. You were referring to, right?

00:11:35:19 – 00:11:37:10

Yes, yes, yes, yes, it was that, yep.

00:11:37:21 – 00:11:50:00

And then it’s just it’s crazy how you can get that one big sale and then and then stop like, is that at the top? OK? I shouldn’t say it’s crazy because we all have our own past.

00:11:50:15 – 00:12:18:18

Little. It’s a little out there. I think I think was really scary. I didn’t recognize it as that like in the moment. My thought wasn’t, Oh, I’m done shooting, but I just like, literally like, shut down talking about like I had been starting to talk about it and I stopped talking about it. And I just I was so afraid that one that woman was going to call me and want her money back because she hated everything that we created, actually, and like, doesn’t give a crap about her wall art.

00:12:18:20 – 00:12:25:01

And I just I was just so afraid of doing it again. So I just stopped. It was really interesting.

00:12:25:13 – 00:12:55:07

Well, I’m really glad that you brought this up because I think, well, I know that a lot of us have issues receiving money from people. Yes. You know, even though this woman chose to pay you, it’s not like you held her down and stole her purse. Like I chose to book you knowing your prizes booked, you paid you. And yet somehow we still have this distrust. I don’t even know this feeling worthiness less guilty of it. It’s wild.

00:12:55:16 – 00:13:22:11

Yeah, yeah. It was definitely unworthiness. I still felt like what I did or did not equate to $1500 like. And now in retrospect, like, hell, yes, even though I don’t, you know, I don’t love that work. It was my first shoot. Those are pretty terrible now for my standard. But for her, it was the best photo she had ever had of herself. And she loved them and she spent money on them. And I made that a bad thing at the time. It was really strange.

00:13:22:25 – 00:13:48:00

How did you? I know you said you had a life coach and yeah, but for like because I know there are so many people listening who can who can 100 percent relate. And I remember feeling the exact same way. It was like I’d break out in the cold sweats. Anytime I had to talk about pricing or take money from people, I found myself giving things away, even though they had already agreed to the price. And I’m like, Oh, but you can also have this, and they’re like, Wow. Totally. It’s just like, How did you work through it?

00:13:50:09 – 00:13:54:12

I’m sorry. This is a really tough I know it’s like a loaded question.

00:13:54:14 – 00:14:27:28

I think that, well, first of all, the group is the thing that always makes me come back to it because while I would have loved to continue to hide and just keep my day job, when you show up in the Facebook group and you see like Felicia Reed calling in and telling all of these other like Bethany and everyone like all the mentors right at this time, it’s like, we’re sorry. We’re hearing about, like all the mentors success at that time. And I was just like, Shit, it’s possible I live in New York like it’s it’s possible in these tiny towns that I live in one of the biggest cities in the world and like.

00:14:28:00 – 00:14:59:04

So I would always like even when I wanted to recoil, going into the group would be like, Well, they’re doing it Damaly, what the hell are you like? What what are you doing with yourself? So there would always be that dialogue of like, I know that I want to do it, which is why I kept paying for the membership and why I stayed in the group. And just like, you know, the constant reminder that it’s possible, it’s possible was like, All right, we’re going to continue to open up and keep pushing ourselves out there. And even though it hurts and it sometimes physically hurt, like, I don’t know how the brain does that, but sometimes it physically hurts.

00:14:59:21 – 00:15:07:15

I knew that I had to in order to get what I really, really wanted, which is like the freedom I’ve been able to create now.

00:15:08:03 – 00:15:24:03

Yeah, yeah. So after you did that, I know you said for the rest of the year you stopped shooting, got a life coach, you kind of got back on track. Yeah. Take us from there. Like, did you just go out and get a studio? Did you were you consistently booking at that point? Tell us a little bit about that.

00:15:24:17 – 00:15:57:02

Sure. Yeah. So, OK, I quit my job in 2019, in the summer right before the Portrait Masters, so that was fun. I went and I met a great community there, some really awesome girlfriends who were still super close to the day. So I had some of the personal support right in the form of that, I was able to I had like three months rent saved, I’m not going to say I had $0, say I three months rent saved up. But that still wasn’t much straight like leaving when I chose to leave and could have been much more. But it was that moment where I was like, It’s time to fucking do it.

00:15:57:04 – 00:16:27:22

Or like, Let’s just let let. Let’s just really do it. So quit my job. Started to market myself more and then went to TPM, came back from TPM, started booking, folks, I. I did a 40 over 40. I started a 40 over 40 and that really helped with confidence and pulling folks in. And then 2020 hit and I had to cancel almost everything in February because New York was one of the early big hit to experience COVID.

00:16:28:05 – 00:16:58:24

And that devastated me again. Another, like, you know, before I stopped myself and this time the world stopped me, and that was really, really difficult to deal with at the time, like having to cancel these shows that I had worked so hard to book. I thought about quitting there during the during the hiatus I’ll be totally upfront. I had to collect unemployment right to get myself through those months, and I’m really grateful that New York extended it to contractors, which so I qualified. And then summer came.

00:16:58:26 – 00:17:25:06

People started to book again and I pick myself up and I targeted. That’s what that’s when I made the shift to personal branding. Mostly, I engaged in a bunch of online groups and then the booking started to flow from there. So that’s how I ended the year with that almost 60 K. Most of that happened in like the last five months of the year, just because the other seven months New York was shut down.

00:17:25:09 – 00:17:40:28

Right? Oh gosh. It’s yeah. And the fact that you were like, really just started, you’re starting your business during the pandemic, like really getting it going? Yup. My gosh. But you found a way. It was hard. It sounds like, OK, so you talked about marketing yourself. Yeah. And joining groups and that sort of thing. Tell us a little bit about that.

00:17:41:14 – 00:18:12:08

Absolutely. So I, you know, there’s a big emphasis, though, excuse me, there’s a big emphasis on in-person networking, which is amazing. But for me, as a millennial, as someone who just loves to be on her phone, I decided to figure out where my ideal clients were. And so I started to engage in groups like business groups where personally they work for me too, because I love learning from other industries on what they’re doing, and it helps me tweak things specifically to myself is something that I really enjoy doing.

00:18:12:17 – 00:18:44:25

But also, it’s easy to be around entrepreneurs because they need photos and they love what I do. So that’s really how I built my business. There’s like two groups in particular that I joined, and I would show up there authentically, not really pitching, but just like helping others and being myself. And then people would just click on my bubble, look at my work, and be like, Oh shit, you’re if I thought your really great photographer like, I need photos. And from there, like friending, a lot of those folks bring them into my world following them on Instagram like it was, it started to allow them to see me consistently.

00:18:45:04 – 00:19:16:06

And even though I know everyone thinks that, like personal branding, folks like they’re ready to throw lots of money at you, that’s not necessarily always the case, like some photo shoot and burn. I was able to build the value of what I do, how I do it, because what I do is different from some personal branding photographers where I’m still doing the way of consoles and a full day photo shoot with hair and makeup and a reveal. And a lot of my clients have never experienced that. They’re like, Wait, you don’t just like, give me a gallery. And I’m like, No, sorry, not today.

00:19:17:20 – 00:19:48:15

So, you know, I was able to educate them using my marketing and really build the value of what I do to them. And then they just like starts a book. So I have this stream of this group of women that I started on two years ago that just keep referrals flowing. And it is not, as I was like, saturated as I wanted to be for myself. That’s me being a little bit of a perfectionist, but I am continuously booking right? So I’ve been able to pay myself and pay myself well so far. So that is that is the win.

00:19:48:24 – 00:19:52:00

That’s fantastic. I have so many questions for you. OK, OK.

00:19:53:26 – 00:20:34:26

One thing you said that really stands out is that you nurtured these relationships. It wasn’t like you just show up to these meetings and you give your pitch and you talk about yourself and that’s it. Like, you are finding them on social media, paying attention to them being top of mind. And I know I say this a lot for people who listen a lot. I’m super sorry that I’m always repetitive about this, but it’s just so, so important to not expect to go into one meeting and book 10 shoots. It takes time. It takes time for people to trust you. We are reinventing the way that photography works like, you know, the shoot and burn type situation where it was a hundred bucks or 150 bucks.

00:20:35:01 – 00:20:57:25

A lot of people are still used to that, and it does take some time to show them that you know what or doing things a little bit differently now. So in some people right away, we’ll be like, Hell, sign me up. But it does take time to show people that, you know, you’re a full service type experience. And so it’s not. Yeah, so it does. It does. It takes time and it takes work and it takes nurturing.

00:20:58:07 – 00:21:28:23

It does. It takes a lot of nurturing. And I think like there are amazing folks who are like, like, I literally had someone, I had a client. This is a 10k client, by the way, and she friended me on Facebook. No, I randomly friended her because sometimes I will look at the business folks who I’m friends with and I will find their friends because they know each other. And there’s like a point of reference and I friended her. She accepted a friend request. She messaged me and she said, Hi. Oh my God, your work is beautiful. And I thought she was just being friendly and I was like, Oh yeah, thank you. That’s so wonderful.

00:21:28:25 – 00:21:56:22

Going to go check you out, too. And then she’s like, No, no, no wait. Where are your packages? And then the next day? She booked my 10k package. It’s there. There are those awesome flight that happens every once in a while that they’re just ready for you? And then there are the folks who will need to watch you for two whole years. I just I literally just shot a session with a wonderful woman who had been in my orbit for the last two years, and she’s just been building her own confidence about wanting to spend that much money with me.

00:21:56:29 – 00:22:26:23

Yeah, yeah, you’re right. There are those. It’s like there’s two different types of clients there. Yeah, yes, I’m ready now in the know. And then two years later, like my last client that I just had Jessica. She I think she first contacted me a year and a half ago, and we finally just did it because she finally was like, OK, fine, I’m ready. Yeah. And yeah, sometimes it just takes time. And that’s OK. Yeah, OK. So I know that you specifically photograph like specializes in BIPOC folks. So is there anything special that you bring to your marketing?

00:22:27:18 – 00:23:07:06

Yes and no. I feel like I show I show black women and people of color in general because I’m a black woman. And that was representation is just so, so, so important to me. So as a black woman, it would feel like all hell to not want to include that in my portfolio. And I kind of flipped it because when I started photography and I was having conversations with likes and models and like, you know, like fashion people, right? There were these terrible stories about how like, you know, if you really want to make it, how you have to stop photographing black folks because you know, no one wants to see that in your portfolio in x, y z.

00:23:07:13 – 00:23:44:24

And this is more fashion, not necessarily portfolio stuff. It was like it was like New York fashion talk, right? And I was just like, yuck, just tell me it was super gross. And so I was like, OK, well, if that’s what it is, I’m going to only show women of color in my marketing. And honestly, it’s most of my marketing on Facebook. I show everyone. But for me, it’s really important that my Instagram and website only feature women of color. And that’s because I want the women like myself who are so desperately searching to see themselves, to be able to find that in my work, because that’s what I really needed when I was growing up and when I was a little kid.

00:23:45:03 – 00:24:02:12

And I just feel super like we don’t always get that chance, you know what I mean? So it’s my business, and I get to run things the way that I want to. I want my clients to know that, that they’re my priority and they are. While I work with everyone and I absolutely love working with everyone. The women that look like me are absolutely my priority.

00:24:02:20 – 00:24:22:03

Yeah, and they should be. Absolutely. And you know, it all comes down to also showing who we want to photograph, and this is incredibly important. And you know, when when you scroll through your work, I see just remarkably beautiful women of color.

00:24:22:24 – 00:24:24:06

Thank you and thank you.

00:24:24:08 – 00:24:34:09

Thank you. You’ve done such an amazing job of of being what you are told you. Oh, you can’t do this or like, it’s right.

00:24:35:03 – 00:25:05:21

Yeah, yeah. There’s sometimes a stigma, especially around folks of color where it’s like, well, black folks don’t want to pay that. Or, like, that’s what my uncle told me, right? Like when my family said, No, don’t quit your job. They were like one who’s going to pay you that. And that’s a personal feeling, right? Like, you know, he thought that was his feeling. Now I’ve obviously proven him wrong, and he’s happy that I that I was able to prove him wrong. But you know, there’s this thing where you’re almost afraid that if you target that, that you won’t be paid, what other demographics can pay you. And it’s just not.

00:25:06:00 – 00:25:41:06

It’s not true. Black women helped me build my business, and I’m so grateful for their never ending support. And also something special for me happens when I show women of color, which is that the white women that I do work with are so like accepting and loving and just more of the types of folks that I would prefer to work with versus intolerant folks. Or I’ll just say it, racist people. So it kind of like it just creates a standard for who I am. When you look at that work, you’re like, Oh, this, this girl cares about diversity, right? And you should probably, too if you want to work with her.

00:25:41:12 – 00:25:42:25

And I’m really proud of that.

00:25:43:07 – 00:25:54:20

Yeah, you should be. Well, and I noticed, too on your website two things I want to talk about how you write on your website. But I also want to talk about how what I saw is that your packages start at twenty one hundred. Is that right?

00:25:57:25 – 00:26:02:02

Oh, OK, sorry. My packages started sixty five hundred now.

00:26:02:15 – 00:26:03:21

Sixty five hundred.

00:26:04:09 – 00:26:10:11

This is new and it’s like talking about this is so the universe is testing me right now.

00:26:10:25 – 00:26:11:10

Yeah,

00:26:13:02 – 00:26:14:19

you heard it here first, but

00:26:16:14 – 00:26:27:21

I’m. I was like, Twenty one hundred is amazing. You know, is it an incredible, like starting package? Yeah, yeah. Sixty five hundred is. I love it. I want to hear more.

00:26:28:16 – 00:27:11:19

OK, so I went to package only pricing in 2020, and I. Start at $3600 and then I’ve been up leveling those sessions and the way that I work ever since. So last year I was at 4500 and this year my new pricing starts at sixty five hundred dollars. So that is where packages begin to work with me. And there’s a few reasons for that. Like my clients get stylists attention. Would they get wardrobe access, which I know is a lot of the things that we all do, but I value it like like when I say that you get to work with my stylist, I really value it and I value the team that I work with.

00:27:12:03 – 00:27:45:12

So when I say that number it’s not like, you know, we are all business owners, right? I’m not taking home sixty five hundred dollars. I pay my team really well for the package that for the experience that we create for them, which helps them to show up happy and engaged and ready to go. And I also pay myself well, and I just set the standard for myself that’s like, if you’re going to engage me for a day, which is more like three days, right? Because we’re prepping on the day before and we have to detox the day after, and we’re on a kickoff call and we’re like coaching them. I just like literally value every part of what I do.

00:27:45:14 – 00:27:54:24

So now we’re at sixty five hundred and folks know that I’m still getting inquiries. So it’s definitely I’m a rebel. If you can’t tell Nikki,

00:27:56:26 – 00:28:10:16

okay, tell us about this. Tell us about your whole service and what you provide, you know, so if I were to book you at sixty five hundred and knowing out of my pocket initially I’m spending sixty five hundred. Tell me, tell us about that. Like, what are what would we get for that?

00:28:10:25 – 00:28:46:26

Absolutely. So with that package, you’re getting 18 images, you’re getting a kickoff call with me and my stylist so that we’re going to start the process of mapping together what you want to create, asking you questions and making sure that we are building this dream session for you. And we’re going to have the photoshoot day, by the way. I think I gloss over one of the earlier questions, which was like, Do I have a studio? No, I don’t. So I rent by the day. And that, of course, is a bit more expensive than what everybody else is doing, right? So I don’t have my own studio as yet, but yeah, we rent out a studio for them.

00:28:47:03 – 00:29:19:09

They have access to me. I have kind of forged my way in the space that I’m in as a photographer coach. And I mean that deeply as I coaching is a very big part of my life. I love to coach and so my clients come to me because they need extra special attention, because they are terrified, because they want to express themselves in ways that they’re not even exactly sure about. And I helped pull all of that out of them and create something spectacular, and the session does not include any product. So this is a digital only package. I just value the hell out of it and people pay me for it.

00:29:19:21 – 00:29:23:17

It’s so amazing. Your stylists, are you talking hair and makeup or also clothing?

00:29:23:27 – 00:29:54:18

Clothing? Yes, clothing. So yeah, I have two main packages. One is sixty five hundred and one is fifteen thousand. And the fifteen thousand dollar package includes us purchasing clothing for the day not to keep. They can buy it from us if they want to, but on that day it is, and I marketed the hell out of this Nikki. I was like, Imagine showing up on the day of your photoshoot, and there are six custom looks tailored to who you are waiting for you on a rack.

00:29:54:24 – 00:30:25:27

They’re pressed. There seemed like you just got to show up with your bag, and I had two people I’ve had. I’ve got a few people, but this package. But like I had a client who flew in from California and she was like, I’m so glad I don’t have to bring clothes with me. All the clothes are going to be there and I was like, Yes, benefits that we didn’t know that we were. We are providing. So they are really getting an experience where we’re taking photos. But because they get to work with my stylist, they’re leaving with a whole new view of themselves, of what they can wear, of how they can wear it, of how to dress themselves in the future.

00:30:25:29 – 00:30:40:23

They’re walking away with the confidence of our photoshoot. Together, they’re walking away, knowing their angles and poses that we take them through, and they’re walking away with these fantastic collection of images that look and feel like who they are. So I’m super proud of these packages.

00:30:41:00 – 00:30:57:19

That sounds like a dream, like for as if I were a client. That sounds like a dream. To dress me. And I mean, are they giving you? I’m assuming there’s some sort of like consultation where you’re saying all they want to look and color preferences like that sort of thing.

00:30:57:25 – 00:31:33:03

Yeah. So after they meet with me, they meet with my stylist and she takes them through a long, extensive call where they go over like what they were doing. And then she’s like, Oh, well, you said you didn’t like color, but guess what? Actually, it would be really great in your skin tone and guess the fit for the jeans that you should actually be wearing. And guess what color combinations we can do? And it’s it’s just so exciting for them. And then what we do is we she sends them this beautiful mood board of looks that have already been put together for them, right? So when we’re buying them, we should, we make the purchases for them.

00:31:33:11 – 00:31:47:04

But I. I’ve had packages where we just gave them the mood board, and they just click out into the links to purchase, and it’s so easy and super fun. But yeah, they’re getting like this entire experience when it comes to the clothing that just makes it ten times better. Wow.

00:31:48:00 – 00:32:15:09

I feel like that is such a huge pain point for people is what to wear. Yes, I mean, I think sometimes people actually avoid booking a photoshoot because they have no idea what they’re what they’re going to wear and they don’t want to go shopping. They don’t want to deal with it. So you are like hitting it. Not only are you making it a really fun experience and you know someone’s shopping for you and telling you what looks good on you and all of that. It’s an exciting and fun experience as well, but you’re also hitting. You’re like taking care of that pain point for people.

00:32:15:23 – 00:32:46:05

Yeah, it’s a big deal. And that’s really where the price increase for this year came from, because I knew last year I started on $4500 and that was great, but it didn’t include stylist assistance. They had to purchase it separately. And so I what I thought is that if you’re spending almost $5000 with me, but you’re not getting the clothing and you’re still confused about what works for you, what so many of us are. Especially with COVID, right? Our bodies are always changing and we are shifting and we just don’t necessarily know like where we should be at. I was like, It doesn’t make sense.

00:32:46:07 – 00:33:09:23

It doesn’t make sense to not include my stylist. So my packages now, all of them have a level of touch with my stylist. And the first level with the 6500 is is basic, but still hella informative and value fell right. Like, they’re still getting that attention on their colors and their styling and everything else. She’s just not putting together the big mood board that we create for my 15K client and where we buy the clothing for.

00:33:10:08 – 00:33:18:27

Yeah, that makes sense. Now Damaly how do you? I know people out there are wondering, how do you pay the stylist?

00:33:19:12 – 00:33:49:15

Yeah, well, I just included like I do my retoucher and everything else. So and stylists stylist cost very I’ve had as cheap as five hundred and I’ve had folks pay. I know of a fantastic stylist who charges seventy five hundred, right? So stylist definitely barre. But there’s a range and you know, you also get what you pay for it too. So I I found a really great range with my stylists right now. She’s around eight-fifty to a thousand and she’s just fantastic to work with.

00:33:49:17 – 00:33:50:14

So I love it.

00:33:51:04 – 00:34:08:28

Mm, that’s great. That’s great. I think I mean, in addition to finding someone who works in your budget with your package, do you find personality? I mean, obviously everyone look, your team has to be of a certain mindset, of course, but it seems like the stylists, even even more so. I don’t know.

00:34:09:07 – 00:34:41:21

Yeah, no. Yeah. Like she has to obviously, you know, like we’re trying to be current, right? So she should be body sensitive and body positive. And like all those great things, and I forgot to mention that my stylist also does also hair on the day of the photoshoots, right? So she’s there, which is such a godsend because when I’m shooting, I can definitely be a scatterbrained and she will pop in and fix something that has fallen or the jewelry has turned around the wrong way. Like having her there for the small details is so, so, so fantastic. So, yeah, we vibe super well together.

00:34:41:23 – 00:34:59:10

She’s also a supportive air in the in the room and my clients love being fast. So we’re like, at this point, I’m helping on shoots. She’s buttoning something on their jacket and my makeup artist is dabbing on more highlighter. Like, they’re like, What the hell is this? It’s it’s pretty amazing.

00:34:59:17 – 00:35:31:16

Yeah, yeah, that’s very that makes so much sense. One of my makeup artists is very stylish. She’s very stylish. So I’m yeah, I often defer to her like as I’m setting up the next set or whatever, you know, the backdrops, whatever. Sometimes she is helping my client pick out the jewelry or whatever, and she just does hair makeup. She doesn’t, you know, focus so much on picking out clothes or anything. But I love having that extra opinion, and she always shows up well dressed. And looking stylish at herself. And so when I’m like, Oh, Meghan’s my, you know, Meghan’s going to help you pick out your jewelry.

00:35:31:18 – 00:35:38:08

I mean, Meghan’s right there, you know, like, so it’s it does. It adds that extra little level of service?

00:35:38:21 – 00:36:10:20

Yeah, I really wanted to create what I needed because that’s what I needed. I don’t know how to dress myself entirely right? Like, I’m at this age of, like growing into myself as a woman versus like, what was I doing in my 20s? So I really just wanted to create something that felt like it was 360 taking care of the people who are coming in. And the response for it is amazing. Like even for the folks who can’t afford it right away, it’s on their list. Like people write me daily saying that my $15000 package is on their list and that they are actively working towards it. And so that makes me feel really lucky.

00:36:10:29 – 00:36:46:00

I love it. That’s so great. Yeah, being the photographer that people want to book because obviously there are a lot of personal branding photographers in New York. Yeah, but when you can set yourself apart in these ways, like you said, people are saving now and they have you on their list to spend 15 grand with you as a photographer. Yeah, because you are the photogs. For now that these people want a book, you know, the women who are saying they want to book you. Yeah, because of what you’re showing. And are you now? Are you including this in your marketing as well that you provide all of this?

00:36:46:02 – 00:37:16:24

Of course, yes. Yeah, I spent a lot of time. I like to think of my marketing as like, I’m just figuring out different ways to give them permission to have this. So like, that’s literally all I do in my marketing is say, Hey, it’s OK to spend as much on yourself or Hey, it’s OK to treat yourself. Or Hey, like, wouldn’t you freakin love a day to feel like a celebrity just like soooo teachers, right? Like nothing that different. But I just look for different angles and other ways to just dig into how juicy and special this experience is.

00:37:17:09 – 00:37:24:07

Yeah, I love that. I love it so much. So I know that you said they spend the whole day with you, right?

00:37:24:15 – 00:38:04:11

Yes, it’s a longer day, which made sense when I when I created it, it’s called the VIP Day, and it was because of some of the branding folks, right? Because I was still doing things like portraits, but they were like, You know, I need more time. I need more looks. I need more photos. I need something to account for that. And I was like, Well, if I do this, it would have to be at a certain level because I can’t charge, you know, what was it? Maybe four grand for 30 images, right? But then charge six grand for hundred, which is like sometimes what we like branding folks are like I want 50, so I like something like that.

00:38:04:13 – 00:38:38:27

So the VIP day was my way of pleasing them and saying, If you want me to go all in, this is how much it’ll be. I think I started at 10 and I was giving them all the images. I know I slapped myself. We fixed that. We can upgrade upgraded that greatly throughout the year or two of doing this. And now that $15000 package is actually only includes thirty five images. So but it’s like, you know, it’s branding in my style, which they really want. I’ve somehow been able to train them in, so really loving what I do the way that I do it.

00:38:39:08 – 00:38:48:05

So the fact that they’re not even pressed on the image packaging, which is important and then they can still purchase more. And I’ve had I’ve had someone purchase more on top of the VIP day.

00:38:48:16 – 00:39:23:20

Another thing that I really love about your marketing is, like I mentioned, is the way that you write on your website before. Yeah, because I was I was just scrolling through and you, like had me captivated with everything I was reading. Thank you. Like the way that you speak about what you do is so incredible, and it’s like you give just enough information about yourself, but it’s still not even really about you. It’s still about the clients. Like, you’ve done such a brilliant job at it. And I think it’s really important because it’s not only is it important visually to show what you do, but you know it’s important to tell people what you do as well, and you just do you do a really brilliant job at it.

00:39:24:06 – 00:39:55:01

Yeah, I think that package only made me feel like I need to step my game up just because, sure, booking and folks, I four hundred dollars. I mean, at the time, for me, it felt hard. But now in retrospect, right, you’re like 400 dollars. Thirty six hundred dollars when I started right like that felt like a big jump. And so I was like, I need to tell them more. I need to get them more emotionally invested upfront so that they feel comfortable paying me that upfront. And that’s how I figured out. Like, I prefer to be paid upfront versus at the sale.

00:39:55:03 – 00:40:40:25

It lowers my level of anxiety and it allows me to be more present in the day than when I was doing, you know, the other way for it, right? So knowing that I was asking more of these folks upfront, right for you to say, I trust Damaly with this much money upfront, I decided that I had to add more words and more information and more knowledge to help connect the images to the experience and the images to what they were actually getting for the money that they were paying me upfront. So that’s why writing like, I’m a writer, I’ve always been a writer, but I knew that like if I’m going to sell them this right, like if I just have my photos up there and they read six hundred dollars, they’re going to click away and they’re like, No, no image is that good, right? I mean, that’s that’s probably a block of mine.

00:40:40:27 – 00:40:59:00

But for me, I was like, No, but if you get on my website and you read about how transformative it is and you read the actual benefits of what the show is going to give you, you’re like, Wait a second. I never thought that I would pay this much for photos. But the way the Marley does it like, I think I will, and that’s kind of what happens.

00:40:59:14 – 00:41:06:22

It’s true. It really is. It’s like you leave your website feeling like, why wouldn’t I do this instead of why would I?

00:41:06:28 – 00:41:07:21

I love that.

00:41:08:04 – 00:41:15:21

It’s just the way you write is very powerful, and I hate to use the word convincing because I don’t think it’s like convince. I mean, yeah,

00:41:15:23 – 00:41:17:26

like not like like, you know, like slimey sales

00:41:17:28 – 00:41:26:08

sales. Yeah, it just is. Really, I can see why you have grown at the rate that you have these early

00:41:26:17 – 00:41:45:25

and full disclosure. I did work with a copywriter on my website because while I’m a writer. There is a certain format for websites like when you go into the entrepreneurial space, that’s important. So I’ve worked with two fabulous copywriters in the last few years to help fine tune that. But the heart, the theme, the value that all does come from me.

00:41:46:01 – 00:41:54:06

Yeah, yeah, I believe it. Well, overall, I mean, I’m just excited to see where you’re going to go from here. I mean, what are your plans? What are your goals?

00:41:54:20 – 00:42:32:05

That’s such a great question. I think I am just working towards stabilizing. The interesting thing with being package only and starting at this rate also means that like inquiries can be lower. I hope that makes it like it’s not like I don’t get three inquiries. I do get inquiries, but I’m very upfront about my pricing. So my form now says Packages start at 6500. hundred Are you OK with that right? And I’ve had folks check off, yes, and book the call. But of course, there are people who I’m sure sorry about form and they’re like, Hold on, I can’t afford that right now, right? So my inquiries are slower than I wanted to be.

00:42:32:07 – 00:43:08:29

So my goal this year is just to increase my marketing efforts. Be better with Instagram right now. Facebook is my primary source of marketing. It’s where I get most of my clients from, but I do want to increase my IG presence and maybe a little bit of TikTok. We’ll see what happens. Yeah, just like really, you know, my goal is to do three or four of those shoots a month, and I’m just going to keep working on refining my message, strategy, and connecting with my clients like I do online and just showing them how much fun it is to not just have this photoshoot, but also how much fun it is to spend that much money on themselves.

00:43:09:01 – 00:43:22:25

Like I’ve had folks say that spending this money with me was their own form of self-care because we don’t usually think that we’re worth spending that much money on a photoshoot. It’s for ourselves. So I get to be someone’s self-care, which is kind of fun.

00:43:23:05 – 00:43:37:16

Yeah. And like you said, yes, there are going to be probably less people at this point that we’ll spend 15 grand, right? But that’s OK because we’re trying to work smarter, not harder. You know, we’re not going to work our liberal. I don’t I shouldn’t put words in your mouth, but you know,

00:43:37:18 – 00:44:08:23

so but you’re absolutely right. Like that is absolutely like my business is really custom tailored to who I am, and I am not a person who can do a lot of shoots in the in a short time frame. I’m actually re-learning that lesson because I decided to run a special in January which I now am battling myself with because it’s a bit too much. So it reinforces my original hypothesis, which is that three or first shoots a month at 6500, our thousand $15000 is everything that I need to survive and be good with how I’m running my business.

00:44:09:01 – 00:44:12:25

Yeah, yeah. Very, very, very cool. I’m excited for you.

00:44:13:07 – 00:44:14:23

Thank you. I appreciate it.

00:44:15:29 – 00:44:40:02

Well, thank you for sharing everything. I mean, actually, you know what? Before I go on to the last, the questions that I always ask at the end were you tell people about your lighting set up because you just like, preserve skin tone very, very well. And a lot of people don’t. I mean, it’s, you know, unfortunately. So I just you do such a nice job with your color tones and skin tones and just lighting in general. So what do you do?

00:44:40:10 – 00:45:16:29

Thank you. I’m very flattered to be answering a lighting question on this podcast. I don’t think of myself as a skillful, lighter. Thank you, Felix. Thank you, Thank you. I really do stick to two or three setups that I learned from Felix and Lara Jade courses, the fashion series and the lighting series. And for me, all I’ve ever done with my lighting is put my subject in front of it and try my best to make sure that they look really good. And I think that when it comes to photographing black women in particular and women of color in particular, that some people struggle with that and they’ll overlook that part.

00:45:17:08 – 00:45:54:11

But I can’t, right? Because you’re not going to come to me and then feel like I shot you ashy as a black, I can’t. I can’t happen. Like I said, my emphasis is really on just making sure that the woman in front of my camera is glowing and my lighting setups reflect that. It’s very simple. My favorite setup is from Lara Jade cover girl. She’s incredible. Yeah, it’s in her lighting section, and it’s just one light tilted down in front of the subject with two black vee flats or two white v flats. But I use black because it is just better on black women that contrast that pop it just for me makes it super rich and beautiful.

00:45:54:13 – 00:46:11:00

And then we edit that naturally, and I keep true to the skin tone on purpose. Like, I don’t like to get too artsy. I do. I will sometimes. But for me, the best look is where that melanin? Looks like it could, you know, like, like actual chocolate? So that’s how I treat it.

00:46:11:06 – 00:46:13:05

Yeah, that’s awesome.

00:46:14:23 – 00:46:28:08

Well, again, thank you for sharing everything, and I just I feel like I’m like, You’re someone asked for us to keep an eye on. I see you’re going places, that’s for sure. So I’m very, very excited for you. Have you told your uncle about all of this?

00:46:28:24 – 00:46:44:05

Oh, of course I have. I rubbed that $140000 all up in his face. OK, was like, take that, yeah, rub that in my entire family’s face, though, all everyone in the room said, No, don’t, quit. But now they’re very grateful that I didn’t.

00:46:44:13 – 00:46:53:07

I do hope that people from the fashion industry also take note. You know what you were told and just in general, what is often experienced,

00:46:53:19 – 00:46:54:12

that would be nice.

00:46:55:13 – 00:46:55:28

Yeah.

00:46:56:06 – 00:47:03:01

So they’re working on it, but it’s going to be a long, weird road. Fashion has so many issues that they’ve got to work on, so we’ll see what happens.

00:47:03:12 – 00:47:15:20

I know. I know. All right. Well, I do have some other questions to ask you that I always ask at the end of each episode, and the first one is what can you what can’t you live without when you’re doing a photo shoot?

00:47:16:09 – 00:47:21:26

Oh, what can’t I live without when I’m doing a photo shoot?

00:47:24:00 – 00:47:41:27

Can I say like my actual lights like I, I’ve had to like, train myself to check for actual natural lights up because I I started this in my apartment where there was no light, so I’m just so used to shooting with my lights now that not having my lights sometimes feels unnatural.

00:47:42:12 – 00:47:45:24

Hmm. Mm hmm. OK. Do you use a specific brand of light?

00:47:46:08 – 00:47:51:06

Yeah, I use Go Dogs, which was there for me when I was broke, so I’m hanging out with them for a while.

00:47:51:24 – 00:48:22:29

Yeah. Hell yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. I used the same camera for years and years and years, and I finally just upgraded. I just upgraded. I got the AR six. I made up between the R5 and six and Michelle Celantano. I interviewed her about on on SBE well The Portrait System powered by SBE now. I had to and we talked about canon cameras. OK? And I know she just took me to the R six instead of the r5 when I was listening to her, I was  like, All right, that’s what I’m getting.

00:48:23:01 – 00:48:24:21

I don’t need the r five, the r six is good.

00:48:25:13 – 00:48:44:20

Love it. I can’t wait to go. What do you what do you shoot with. When I shoot on my Nikon D750? I’ve had it since I. I’ve had it for the last four years, and it’s time for an upgrade its own to tinker out of bit from use. So I’m either going to go Nikon mirrorless or do a full swap to Sony. Those are my my hopes.

00:48:45:02 – 00:49:02:00

Yeah, all great options. Yeah, I actually started. My husband had a Nikon d80. I married into Nikon at the beginning at night when I was doing. When I look at the thing, I’m like, Oh, there’s so many buttons and like, I don’t even know. And then I used that briefly and then that my first like purchase myself was a Nikon 750.

00:49:02:11 – 00:49:07:10

Yeah, yeah, that’s my old faithful there getting getting me through with these sales. We love it.

00:49:07:18 – 00:49:12:29

Oh yeah, for sure. Awesome. Very cool. OK, next question. How do you spend your time when you’re not working?

00:49:13:13 – 00:49:42:24

I love TV. That’s my number one thing. I love books. But yeah, you know, I went to school for TV, so I’m obviously very obsessed with TV and movies. And I write, I, you know, I want to write a book. There are so many other things outside of photography that I have my eyes on. I’m a very multi passionate person, so I am doing my best to channel other passions when I’m not doing photography so I don’t burn out in my photography.

00:49:43:03 – 00:49:54:01

Yeah, yeah. That makes so much sense for sure, because you can burn out like it. Yeah, it’s real. Very real stuff. Yeah, that’s great. OK. Number three is what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:49:54:18 – 00:50:18:08

So my favorite quote is one from the great Lisa Nichols, who I heard this in one of her interviews, and she said that when she wakes up, she likes herself so that you don’t have to. And so that is like my favorite thing of reminding myself that I need to validate Damaly first before I ever look to anybody else to do so. So that’s one of my favorites.

00:50:18:19 – 00:50:31:02

I love that. I’ve never heard that quote, but yeah, I’m I’m so glad you said it because it is so true. Very cool. It’s a good one. OK. And then number four is what would you say to people who are just getting started?

00:50:31:24 – 00:51:05:05

I would say, like, give yourself fully to it like it’s uncomfortable. It’s hard, you will cry. But so is living the mundane life that you’re sick of, too. So the thing that worked the best for me was just keep, you know, picking myself back up over and over again. And the other thing I’m going to say is is get support like get support, pay for the subscriptions, pay for the coaches. I have worked with so many coaches and so many service providers that have helped me get to a place where I can free flowingly choose to charge what I charge.

00:51:05:07 – 00:51:37:21

And that doesn’t happen in a day or a month, right? That takes months and months and months and years of reinforcing what it is that you do in the world. So find help and ask for help in any way that you can and pay for that help. Because I look at it now, like when I invest in other people, I’m investing in myself. And my quick growth, I think, is because I openly spent so much money investing with other people. We’re slowing it down now because the Damal a few years ago was so hungry that she just charged at all.

00:51:37:28 – 00:51:45:05

But it was so worth the growth that I’ve been able to experience because of it. It helped me grow and stretch in ways that I would not have without it.

00:51:45:19 – 00:51:47:27

Yeah, very, very wise advice. Thank you Damaly.

00:51:48:18 – 00:51:50:02

Thank you for having me, Nikki.

00:51:50:04 – 00:52:20:16

Yeah, this was so great. This is so great. And again, you’ve a great voice and you didn’t say, um like one time. Oh, you’re just, you’re a really, really a great speaker as well. I’m just like picturing you on stages is like WPPI. And, you know, I don’t know. I just I just feel like you have a lot, a lot to share with the world. And, you know, just representing BIPOC folks is just just everything. Everything about what you do is is really incredible. And I love your energy. So, yeah, thank you very much.

00:52:20:18 – 00:52:25:29

Thank you so much. I would love to be on some stages. So we’ll see where I end up, let’s go.

00:52:26:11 – 00:52:38:07

Yeah, it was Sue, actually after you spent a weekend with Sue. She was like, You have got to interview Damaly and I was like, done and done so.

00:52:38:16 – 00:52:52:03

Best weekend of my life, I must say. So awesome. She’s great, and I’m so glad that I had the opportunity to connect and do this. I’m really, really, really appreciative of the platform in which I’ve built. It’s been just so life-changing, honestly.

00:52:52:15 – 00:52:54:21

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yay!

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.