FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

00:00:00:02 – 00:00:02:08

You’re listening to the Portrait System podcast.

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Yeah, you can take a good photograph, but you have to have that connection with people and to have that connection, you have to get to know them too and you have to laugh with them. You have to, you know, sometimes be goofy. I’m super goofy in my sessions and it’s fun. I have a good time with it.

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Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business, to help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they’ve learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com. And they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You’ll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business, and you’ll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals.

00:00:56:14 – 00:01:28:03

Thank you so much for being here. And let’s get started. Today. My guest on the portrait system is Jeremy Rill and he is a stand up guy and an amazing photographer. I liked Jeremy the moment I met him at our Portrait Masters shoot out last year and I couldn’t wait to interview him. Jeremy started his business 15 years ago, but he really only got to a huge level of success. Starting in 2020. He now has an over $3,000 sales average, and much of his success is due to his over 40 revolution campaign and he’s currently booked through the next eight months.

00:01:28:15 – 00:01:41:12

Jeremy started his business in his basement, but now he has a studio and has done so well even during the pandemic. All right. I’m so excited for you to hear from Jeremy. So let’s start the show. Jeremy, welcome to the portrait system. How are you?

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I’m great. How are you?

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I’m wonderful. I’m wonderful. I’m so happy to be able to to talk with you again.

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Yes, it’s been a long time. Know. Not too long.

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Yeah, well, let’s see. When was that? When we were we at the portrait? Messer shoot out. I don’t even know what month that was. October.

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I don’t either.

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Last year sometime. I think it was October.

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November. I think it was October.

00:02:03:07 – 00:02:05:21

Yeah, I think it was. And it’s all like blending together.

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I know.

00:02:06:25 – 00:02:31:15

Yeah. Just for our listeners to learn about how we met as we were at the Portrait Masters Shootout and there was a party at a bar and there was a boxing ring in the middle of the bar, so random. And we were there and Angie Whitten introduced us and I was sitting on the floor inside the boxing ring and you were on the outside. And the next thing I knew, we were like talking about life. Like we got dead real quick.

00:02:31:27 – 00:02:34:15

We did that yelling at each other. Really? Because the music was so loud.

00:02:35:03 – 00:02:48:06

Yeah, totally, totally. But I will say, like, right away, I liked you and and like anyone that I can, like, dive into and just, like, speak about just important things right away. I don’t know. I love that.

00:02:48:20 – 00:02:56:26

I know me too. Do you? I do. It’s refreshing because that’s not something that usually happens A, to me or B, probably to everyone.

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So yeah, it’s, it’s nice to just kind of like skip the small talk, just get right into it.

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All right. Well, I’m excited to hear more about your story because I really I know a little bit about you, but I don’t know your whole business story. So I’m excited to have you lay it all out for us. All right. So to start, Jeremy, tell everyone a little bit about what you do, because I know you’re also an actor.

00:03:23:10 – 00:03:54:27

Yes, I am. So, yeah, I went to school for theater, actually, and for the kids out there. Don’t do that. It’s a useless degree, you’ll learn more actually doing it. And so I went to school, I moved from Arkansas, I grew up in Arkansas, I went to university in Arkansas. And right after that I moved to Chicago where I was hoping to be an actor. And, you know, I found a day job that worked really well for my schedule.

00:03:54:29 – 00:04:26:21

I managed a high end hair salon there. And, you know, I was doing the acting thing, I was doing the hair salon thing, and eventually I somehow fell into having a camera. And I’m not sure how that happened. I think my husband bought me one for my birthday one year and I said, Well, this is fun. I enjoyed this. And the, you know, some of the styles at the salon, we’re doing some sort of educational thing that they needed models for and they needed pictures of the models.

00:04:26:23 – 00:04:57:03

And well, I can do that. I have this fun camera and I don’t have models. I’m like, Well, I’m also an actor and all my actor friends love to model. So I had a few of my actor friends model for me and I said, I’ll do your headshots for you too if you model for us. And that’s kind of how I started. I did this modeling thing for a few of my friends. I did their headshots and they actually their headshots were way better than the modeling photos that I took. And I just kept kind of doing that all my, you know, all the rest of my friends, like, oh, I like that shot.

00:04:57:05 – 00:05:24:00

Okay, you do my headshots and make great. Then, you know, over, you know, a few months, years, my friends started having children and I would take pictures of their children, etc. and I was kind of doing the acting thing and doing photography on the side and, you know, doing my full time job of the salon. And that’s just kind of how I started doing photography. And and it’s kind of the rest is history really. Right. And we can discuss that more in a second.

00:05:24:27 – 00:05:33:25

Yeah. So, you know, back then and I know you had the other full time job, so maybe pricing wasn’t necessarily your priority, but were you charging back then?

00:05:34:03 – 00:05:56:27

I was not a lot. But no, I can’t even tell you how much I was charge you back then. That was like 15 years ago. So, I mean, I think I probably had a set fee and I would shoot for however long that took. And you would get, I think probably a disc of all of the images for a set fee. And it was probably $150 to $300 maybe.

00:05:57:15 – 00:06:14:12

Yeah. All right. So when you were doing this, were you did you have a studio at the time? Were you doing it on location? And I ask this just because I think sometimes it can be kind of paralyzing to people if they don’t have a studio and they’re not exactly sure, you know, how to start this. So where did you do the headshots?

00:06:14:24 – 00:06:20:09

You do not need a studio to start out with. Gosh, no, to be completely honest with these headshots that I did. I would

00:06:21:27 – 00:07:00:13

my salon that I worked at was in we called it the art district of Chicago, one of the art districts of Chicago. And I would just find cool alleys to shoot in or like a loading dock I’ve shot in before. I love this. You just have got to walk around and find those places. Right. And eventually, after I, you know, got tired of those places, the salon that I worked at was closed on Mondays. So I would go in on Mondays and I bought this really cheap pair of lights with like those screw in and LED bulbs, I think they were and just use those and you know, you just kind of find what works for you and make it work.

00:07:00:22 – 00:07:10:18

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was going to say a way to make it work because it’s, you know, if you think too much about it or if you think like, oh, I have to have a studio or everything has to be perfect, you’ll just never do it.

00:07:10:24 – 00:07:11:09

Exactly.

00:07:11:11 – 00:07:17:04

So like you said, I mean, loading docks, you can really do photo shoots anywhere if you just look for the good light.

00:07:17:18 – 00:07:36:10

I still do that. I mean, I have a studio now, but I mean, some of my clients would like, you know, shots outside. And so we just kind of explore. And I found some really great alleys again with some, like, creepy places that, you know, you probably shouldn’t be in, but you just kind of check them out and make sure the light’s right and make it work. It’s awesome.

00:07:36:18 – 00:07:50:06

Oh, definitely. I do the same because, you know, while most of my personal branding stuff is in studio, I used to always do on location, I used to always do outdoors. And and it’s something I still love to do today. I actually just posted on my Instagram today. It was

00:07:52:02 – 00:08:22:28

one of my favorite girls that I photographed. Whenever I Can is Odessa, and she wanted some outdoor and I was like looking around outside my studio like, well, we’re in like super industrial area and on the back wall behind the studio is like it was a train track that is no longer in use. It just leads to a dead end. It’s just not even possible for trains to get on it anymore. And then there’s just big graffiti walls mixed with greenery and it can be kind of an eyesore. But I ended up doing her photos out there. It was so cool.

00:08:23:00 – 00:08:24:06

Like I loved how it worked.

00:08:24:11 – 00:08:42:09

Exactly. My studio’s the same I have. I am now again in the art district of Denver and all around me is really cool graffiti. So like, seniors love it back there, you know? Great. Let’s please, can we do that? I don’t get to go back there a lot anymore. So I love it when they want to go outside and make us go.

00:08:42:16 – 00:09:00:27

Yeah. And again, it’s about finding that good light. Like I remember for this particular shoot I’m talking about, it was full sun. And I think I think sometimes that can scare people a little bit but if you position them in the right way. Yeah. And like expose properly, it can just be some of the most beautiful kind of backlit photos.

00:09:01:07 – 00:09:02:16

It’s really beautiful. I love it.

00:09:02:28 – 00:09:09:18

Yeah. Well, tell people a little bit about what your business currently looks like as far as photography.

00:09:10:05 – 00:09:32:13

Sure. So like I said, when I first started out, I was just a headshot guy and I did that for a good long time. I found Peter Hurley and I kind of did his thing for a good long time too. You know, we moved to Colorado in 2013 and I worked out of my basement while I was still doing salon management. Hated that, by the way, don’t do that if you’re out there.

00:09:32:29 – 00:09:34:26

Working in that basement or salon management.

00:09:34:28 – 00:09:35:23

Salon management.

00:09:36:08 – 00:09:36:23

Okay.

00:09:38:21 – 00:10:12:04

So yeah, let’s see. I think it’s been about six years now, seven years actually, since my husband sat me down one day and he’s like, You hate your job. It’s affecting our relationship. You should quit your day job and go photography full time staff. Yes, right. You know, and I’m like husband right there. And I’m like, oh, my God. What? It was frightening. That’s super scary to even think about. And I was like, Okay, well, great. And so I did. And we kind of set up we were living in a townhouse at the time we that we rented, and there was an unfinished basement.

00:10:12:06 – 00:10:44:24

Like a full unfinished basement was huge. And we took half that basement and kind of, you know, made it as nice as we could. And I just started taking headshots again. I was still just a headshot guy taking headshots down there, and it was pretty good for a while. I was still doing kind of like, you know, package pricing, but at least I wasn’t giving the whole CD away this time. I was doing an hour shoot for, I think $300, and they got three images. Something like that. So still not anything that I could, you know, make money on really.

00:10:44:26 – 00:11:17:10

Right. Thank goodness that my husband has, you know, a good job and he’s like, I’m the breadwinner at the point at that point anyway. But I was doing that and we moved to a house. We bought into a much smaller basement, but this time it’s the finished basement, which I’m actually in right now, is now my office, my home office and slash gym. So I was shooting that in this basement and it was smaller. But again, I was just doing that headshot thing and I think I raise my prices a little bit, but so I wasn’t, you know, completely booked all the time.

00:11:17:19 – 00:11:49:18

I felt kind of like I wasn’t really into it. I’m like, well, you know, if if I get work, I get work, right? It wasn’t really like searching for it. And then the pandemic happens, and I think it was probably January, February. And, you know, I had no work. I had, you know, the clients that I had cancelled and and oh my god what am I going to do? Am I going to drive for Uber. I signed up for all these things like Uber and Instacart and all that, and then I found Sue Bryce again.

00:11:49:22 – 00:12:23:03

I had founder, you know, a few years prior. And again, it was that scary thing to do at that point. And, you know, like, I can’t I can’t post my name. I don’t know how to post when I don’t post people, I just take their headshots from my chest up. That’s all I do. I couldn’t possibly do this. And so I kind of fall off the wayside. But when the pandemic happened, you know, I had time. So I sat down and I rewatched and I, you know, kind of learned a few poses. And I had some friends that were models, obviously, because I’m, you know, actor still.

00:12:23:18 – 00:12:47:06

And, you know, I did a few of them with, you know, the new posing. And then I figured out and kind of put things together and redid my website and started an over 40 campaign. And I think I started that campaign in April of 2020. And it was so successful that by September of 2020, I opened my studio in the Denver Arts District.

00:12:47:22 – 00:12:50:12

Wow. That happened fast.

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It was really fast.

00:12:52:06 – 00:13:01:16

I mean, granted, it sounds like you had the foundations, like you knew how to take photos, at least light them and headshots and that sort of thing. Yes. So you learned posing?

00:13:02:03 – 00:13:02:18

Mm hmm.

00:13:03:02 – 00:13:05:06

How crucial do you think that was to your success?

00:13:06:13 – 00:13:36:28

To be completely honest, I think it was pretty crucial for me. Anyway, this was I had never done that before. And it was a completely different thing than the headshots that I had done before. And having that in my back pocket, you know, honestly, to be honest, I still kind of do. I have my iPad. I have the posing guide on my iPad. And I would just I would literally look at the iPad. I would pose them. I would shoot. I would look at the next picture. I would post them. I would shoot. No one ever said anything about it.

00:13:37:12 – 00:14:02:28

I would always tell them I made this this guide for myself because I forget all my poses. So if I’m looking at this, don’t be, you know, worried about it, like, oh, no, it’s fine. I think that’s amazing. Great. And I still sometimes look at it. So I think, you know, I’ve heard a lot of people in the in the group say, like, oh, I just can’t my clients are going to, you know, think I’m, you know, don’t know what I’m doing. If I’m looking at these poses like, no, no, it’s fine. They don’t care.

00:14:03:20 – 00:14:09:14

I’m so happy you brought this up because of what you said. That’s so. It’s so true. They don’t care. All they care about is how they look in the end.

00:14:10:02 – 00:14:10:17

Exactly.

00:14:11:04 – 00:14:17:09

And they don’t they don’t have to know. I mean, that could just be like your my design notes for you or, you know, like.

00:14:17:11 – 00:14:46:12

Yeah. And even if I’m doing a family photo session or seniors or whatever, I love Pinterest. I’ll go on Pinterest and I’ll put a Pinterest board together for that specific client. And I’m like, I made this Pinterest board for you of poses that I think will be fantastic. And they love that. They think that’s amazing. And, you know, if I’m looking through that and I show them what I what I pick that like, oh, I love this one or I love that one, let’s just do that. And, you know, they don’t care. They want to look like that. So I mean, they think that that’s pretty amazing and I do too.

00:14:48:14 – 00:15:01:17

Yeah, I think it really. And granted, there’s a time and a place for just candid. And of course, you know, it’s not doesn’t always have to be posed but a lot of people need to be told what they what to do. They want to be told what to do.

00:15:01:19 – 00:15:29:29

Oh, my gosh. I start out every session and I say, I’m going to pose you right down to your fingertips. Don’t worry about anything. Just sit there and, like, laugh at my jokes, please. And they really get there, like, oh, thank God. Because I’d have no idea what to do if they came from, like, you don’t have to. That’s not your job. It’s my job. Right. So that really puts them at ease when you tell them that. And, you know, because nobody knows how to posing from the camera. Nobody none of our clients do. Maybe a handful know how to do that. And sometimes when they do, I’m like, please stop doing that. Because it’s not it doesn’t look right.

00:15:31:08 – 00:15:54:11

Oh, that’s funny. Yeah. And that’s something that you I’m wondering if you intertwine that into your marketing, because if you can make people understand or make them feel at ease, letting them know before they even book you like if they’re looking for a photographer and they come across your website or your Instagram or whatever, and you’re saying, Hey, I pose you, you don’t have to know how it’s like, oh, sweet. You know, because it’s scary for people.

00:15:54:19 – 00:16:26:15

It’s super scary. And, you know, no one likes to get their picture taken. Nobody. And if you do, you’re weird. I’m just. Yeah, but that’s just a little strange, right? If you really love your. No, but, you know, no one likes it. And they really want it to be a fun experience. Right. And no one realizes that being photographed can be a fun experience. Like most of my clients before they come in are like, Oh my God, I’m so nervous. I really hate this. I don’t enjoy this at all. And then when they leave, they’re always like, Oh my God, that was actually a really good time because we have a good time in my sessions.

00:16:26:20 – 00:16:54:22

We laugh a lot, I joke a lot. You know, I kind of tell everybody like, Yeah, you can take a good photograph, but you have to have that. Connection with people. And to have that connection, you have to get to know them, to talk to them. You have to laugh with them. You have to, you know, sometimes be goofy. I’m super goofy in my sessions. I make funny noises, I make funny laughs. People always laugh at that sometimes and it’s fun. I have a good time with it. And, you know, I think that makes my job more fun as well if I’m enjoying it.

00:16:55:08 – 00:17:10:05

Yeah. And I believe firmly that you will get more referrals because of that. And it doesn’t necessarily you don’t. Not everyone has to be goofy. I’m I’m goofy too. I’m right. But any sort of connection you can make with your client is what is going to make them refer you.

00:17:10:07 – 00:17:28:20

Oh, my gosh. My my clients love me. Yes, my clients love me. And I it’s just because I’m being myself and I have a good time and, you know, I get to know them and we chat and we talk and you know, when they leave, most of my clients want to be best friends with me and I’m like, Great, I love it. Then tell your friends about me too. And they do.

00:17:28:24 – 00:17:37:27

Oh, that’s so great. So when your clients come in to you, how does it work? Like, do you have a session fee? Do you do a consultation first? What does that all look like?

00:17:38:06 – 00:18:15:24

So I’m a little different, I think, than most at the moment. So the over 40 project that I started back in April of 2020, I’m still doing because it became a much bigger thing than I ever thought it would be. I had a post on Facebook when I started it. It sold out in 48 hours. I’m like, Oh, well, that’s a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be. So I just kept it going. I’d change the name instead of 40 over 40. I now call it the over 40 revolution, and I have been sold out with that for two plus years now.

00:18:15:28 – 00:18:23:00

I am actually I am still sold out and I think I’m booked solid through November right now with just the.

00:18:23:02 – 00:18:25:25

My gosh. Yeah, that’s incredible.

00:18:26:10 – 00:18:56:27

I have one Facebook ad running, which is the same wording that I had on that very first Facebook post to my friends. And it’s been shared so many times, so many comments on it. I just get bookings from it all the time, every day. Just because I think, you know, I you know, we we all know this. We talk to these women and and, you know, after a certain, you know, age, women in our society tend to disappear, which is ridiculous. And I’ve had people tell me this has changed their lives.

00:18:56:29 – 00:19:32:09

And I think that’s amazing. I love this. So my over 40 project, my over 40 revolution, I don’t charge a session fee for I didn’t want that barrier to entry. So we chat about it. They know that, that if they would like to purchase more images, they’re more than welcome to. I think I can count on one hand how many people have not out of hundreds of women that I photograph now. And so there’s no session fee for that. They come in, we do the session, they come back about a week later and they are shown about 75 to 125 images, unretouched images.

00:19:32:19 – 00:19:38:28

And I think my average sales for my project is about $3,000.

00:19:39:13 – 00:19:41:00

That is fantastic.

00:19:41:11 – 00:19:44:11

So that’s wow, the brunt of my business at the moment.

00:19:45:14 – 00:19:50:05

Yeah, I believe it. Now, you said that you’re sold out until November.

00:19:50:21 – 00:19:51:25

I am. I am.

00:19:52:08 – 00:19:59:28

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, Jeremy, when you say you are fully booked, how many shoots are you doing per week?

00:20:00:10 – 00:20:36:18

Well, I would like to do 4 a week. I take clients Tuesday through Friday. I like to take one over 40 clients a day and then I have time for headshot sessions or a senior session or a family session as well on those days. Really kind of depends on the week. I’ve actually gotten quite a few vacations lately, so I like to book myself up around those vacations so I don’t lose out on anything. So sometimes I’ll take two women a day of my over 40, but I like to stay around for because otherwise I get too overwhelmed with work.

00:20:36:28 – 00:20:39:10

Yeah, that’s a lot for per week.

00:20:39:15 – 00:20:50:08

It is a lot. Even for a week is a lot. I’ve been looking at a lot of the group members saying like, Oh, I like to take, you know, for a month. I’m like, Wow, okay. I wish.

00:20:50:20 – 00:21:03:06

Yeah, my sweet spot was always two per week. Yeah. Once I started getting into three per week, I started freaking out. Like, How do you manage that with the editing and just the culling and the client communication, all of that.

00:21:03:25 – 00:21:34:12

So I don’t edit my photos anymore. I outsource that to someone who is amazing. And Colin, actually, I’m really, really quick with Colin. It takes me about half an hour to call a session down to like the final, final ones that I’ll show the client. And I like to kind of split up my, my week a little bit if I can multi consultations on a certain day at a certain time. I’ll take studio tours at a certain day, a certain time. Email communications.

00:21:34:22 – 00:22:09:02

I would like to take on a certain date and time, but email I am very kind of adamant about. So when it comes in, I like to answer it right away just because if it’s a lead, I want to make sure that they hear from me first. But I just try to, you know, departmentalize my week as much as possible and that kind of makes it a lot easier. I’ve used Trello in the past and I kind of make my workflow a little easier. I’m not the best with that, so I need to either hire someone to help me figure out processes or, you know, sit down and figure out processes on my own.

00:22:09:13 – 00:22:12:05

But at the moment it’s working pretty well for me.

00:22:12:13 – 00:22:18:19

Yeah, I like that. I like that. You sound a little bit more organized, at least with your your time structure. More than I am, I should say.

00:22:18:21 – 00:22:21:06

I try to be. It doesn’t ever work that way. So.

00:22:23:11 – 00:22:34:14

Oh, isn’t that the truth? Now, Jeremy, you had mentioned something about your Facebook ads. Would you be willing to share with people even just kind of what the gist of what those ads say, because it seems to be working really well.

00:22:35:05 – 00:22:47:28

All right. So my ad is for Facebook is it just has a great picture there that I got from Creative Market, which I love. Gosh, you need to go out to a creative market. I’ve been there in a while.

00:22:48:08 – 00:22:49:02

Isn’t it great?

00:22:49:04 – 00:23:20:20

I love it so much. Right? I love it. It just says the over 40 Revolution Portrait Session and exhibition celebrating the strength and beauty of women over 40. That’s the picture. And, you know, it just says I’m looking for women over 40 to enjoy a one of a kind photoshoot experience celebrating your life and your story. I tell them there’s going to be a gallery exhibit sometime in the future. And you know I say women over 40 or to experience not to be heard too beautiful not to be celebrated. I’m pretty sure everyone has the same wording. Together we can change the way the world defines aging.

00:23:20:24 – 00:23:52:03

For more information, go to my website. I have a landing page specifically for this project and it kind of details everything that happens. I even mention a little bit of my pricing in there if you know, if you would like to purchase more. My images started this price collection start at this price just so they have an idea that yes, if they want to buy more, they can just to know that, you know, it’s not technically a free thing. I know I’ve seen so many people on the group say that, oh, gosh, people get mad because they think it’s a model call and I should be paying them.

00:23:52:13 – 00:24:25:06

I never say the word model anywhere in here. And, you know, it’s pretty cut and dry. The things that I say, I have it just the targeting that I have is just women over 40 living in Denver, actually living 50 miles around Denver. And originally I put people who match income about I think I did 10 to 20, the top ten or 25% of zip codes. And I took that down for a while and I did notice a change in my sales. So I have now reinstated that and my sales will come back up.

00:24:25:15 – 00:24:35:10

So if if that’s interesting to you to just change that, that is possible to change. That’s only shown to the top 10 to 25% of incomes in my zip code.

00:24:35:27 – 00:24:37:15

How good are you at Facebook ads?

00:24:38:07 – 00:24:39:06

I am not good at all.

00:24:40:01 – 00:24:42:01

Okay, but you worked this out somehow.

00:24:42:14 – 00:25:13:19

I did. I don’t know what I did. I have done Facebook ads in the past and didn’t really see much return on my investment with them. This specific ad honestly, again, I think it has touched something in people because again, when I talk to people, they’re like, it just looked interesting and it’s so great that you’re focusing on this demographic. And, you know, I’ve been told all my life that I’m ugly, or fat by everybody, and I want to see myself how you see me or how other people see me and like that.

00:25:13:21 – 00:25:25:04

Yes, that’s exactly what it is. And, you know, I think just this project touches people in a way that my other maybe projects or ads did not.

00:25:25:24 – 00:25:40:23

Yeah. And you know, if you find something that works and you’re enjoying it and loving it, like keep going with it, we don’t even up, you know, why change it. But I do love how you paid attention to changing, you know, the zip code demographic or whatever, how that helped. That’s that’s pretty cool to notice that.

00:25:41:12 – 00:25:50:12

Yes, I definitely noticed a decline in sales when I did that. So, you know, I just put it back on and everything’s just fine again.

00:25:51:05 – 00:26:07:29

Wow. Okay. So let’s talk a little bit about your packages. I know you said that you they come in not paying for anything. And so you’re paying out of pocket for hair makeup. And I think you said one photo and then tell us about the packages.

00:26:08:20 – 00:26:42:28

So I actually don’t include hair and makeup either. If they would like to have hair and makeup, they are more than welcome to pay for my hair makeup artist and. I would say probably, probably a good 50% of my clients don’t have my hair makeup artist. And I think I, I really haven’t noticed a change in sales even from that. A lot of my clients are like, you know, I don’t wear makeup normally or I, you know, I don’t trust someone else to do it for me.

00:26:43:00 – 00:27:14:16

I mean, that’s fine. I totally understand that. But when we have our consultation, we discuss. I’m like, You do need to do your makeup more than you normally would because my lights will wash you out, etcetera. I just make sure you tell your clients you’re, you’re educating your clients on, you know, how to look their best in their images if they don’t offer hair and makeup. And, you know, I think that’s another barrier to entry for some people would be hair, makeup. If you just include it, some people are going to be like, you know what? I don’t normally do my makeup, so I’m not going to do this because I don’t want someone to do that for me.

00:27:15:00 – 00:27:35:00

Yeah. Now there are people out there who won’t do some sort of campaign like this because they are worried about losing the money out of pocket for hair and makeup. So if you’re one of those people, listen to Jeremy because you don’t have to offer the hair makeup. You don’t have to come in into this with, you know, money out of your pocket. It’s just your time at that point, right?

00:27:35:14 – 00:27:35:29

Exactly.

00:27:36:13 – 00:28:04:21

Yeah. And that’s not to say that time isn’t money, because it is you know, time is extremely important. But I you know, it seems like the more and more people I interview who have either given out gift vouchers or done a campaign, just like I gave out gift vouchers for the first year that I did portraits, it is very rare for someone not to buy. And it’s like you have to get into that mindset. If you’re if you provide great service, if you create beautiful images, if you give a great experiences experience, they’re going to buy. It sounds like you have found that.

00:28:05:06 – 00:28:40:12

Oh, yes. And to be completely honest, you know, art is subjective. You know, I I’ll sometimes leave photos in that. I make art. This is an okay photo. I don’t love this photo. And my client will absolutely love that photo. That photo. Right. The ones that like we’re like about your clients are like, oh my God, this is the most amazing photo. And like, really? And they’re the ones you love. They’re like me, like, okay, I don’t understand, but whatever. If you love that, that’s great. So that’s why I show so many. When I first started out, this project in my basement, I would call all my images down to 30 images.

00:28:40:18 – 00:29:11:22

I would edit all 30 of those images and I would show those edited 30 images. And, you know, sometimes my clients didn’t like a lot of them because maybe they don’t like the ones that I like, right? So that’s why I eventually I’m like, you know what? I’m not going to edit these photos. Maybe I’ll edit three or four just to show them what the edited will look like when they’re done. But I show like 75 to 125 just for that reason, because maybe they’ll like this one when I actually like this one. And nine times out of ten they will like the ones that I’m kind of meh about.

00:29:12:06 – 00:29:21:04

Okay. Now, two questions about that. Question number one is, do you still shoot out of your basement or do you have a studio? And number two is, where do they come to see their photos?

00:29:21:16 – 00:29:38:16

I now have a studio in the Santa Fe Arts District of Denver. So much, much bigger than my basement was. And yes, my clients do come back about a week later. I have a 75 inch TV up on the wall and we just sit on the couch because these are images and they choose the ones they like.

00:29:39:07 – 00:29:45:26

Awesome. All right. I like that because that’s a huge that’s a huge TV, which is, you know, kind of cool for people to see their images that large.

00:29:46:14 – 00:30:00:00

It’s kind of funny, though. The couch is set way back for the TV, as it should be, because hopefully your images will. Well, yes, I do hope your images will be that big, but a lot of my clients will stand up and get real close to the TV and like don’t do that. That’s too close.

00:30:01:02 – 00:30:01:19

That’s funny.

00:30:01:21 – 00:30:03:20

Can you remove that? This wrinkle right here? I’m like, oh, my God.

00:30:04:19 – 00:30:13:00

You’re like, stand back from the television. Exactly. Okay. So tell me then about your your packages. What are those look like?

00:30:13:23 – 00:30:44:19

So it’s fairly similar to pretty much what everyone else is probably doing. I have a folio collection. I use graphi for their folio. I have three collections in there. Six prints for 1210 prints for 1920 prints for 3500. With that 20 print collection, they get a complimentary 16 by 20 mega matte from graphi as well. That’s really my only collections. Everything else is kind of a la carte. I sell white portraits that can either be matted or in canvas.

00:30:45:01 – 00:30:58:04

I sell one album and I sell the gallery series, which is the nine up from graphi. That’s all. I keep it really simple, you know, if you overwhelm your clients with too many options, they won’t buy.

00:30:58:21 – 00:31:01:08

All right, tell people what a nine up is just in case they don’t know.

00:31:01:14 – 00:31:27:16

Yeah, so it’s the from graphi. It’s gorgeous. It’s the very first kind of thing that I got in a sample from my studio in my basement. It’s just a big matte. I do the six by eights and I think it’s like 32 by 36, I believe. With nine, six by eight. And my clients love that. That’s one of my bestsellers.

00:31:28:26 – 00:31:35:16

Awesome. All right. I don’t hear people talk about the nine up a lot, but I feel like it’s such a powerful way to sell wall art.

00:31:36:06 – 00:32:06:13

It really is. Because, you know, especially for this project, a lot of women don’t want this large, you know, you know, canvas portrait of themselves. I mean, I would but when they see the nine up, I feel like, oh, I could see that in like, you know, my boudoir or like my closet or my bathroom or my bedroom or whatever. Right? Because they’re not overwhelmed. It’s on an overwhelmingly large size like one image, but it’s nine like of their favorite images from their session and each one is six by eight.

00:32:06:18 – 00:32:15:01

And I have it framed for them. I just buy an inexpensive frame from Amazon and I include that in the price and they love it.

00:32:15:27 – 00:32:39:26

Yeah, this is this is awesome. Yeah. I feel like we need to start talking more about the nine because like you said, you know, some people for sure would want like a 30 by 40 or something of themselves, but I think most people probably wouldn’t. So this is such a great way to kind of like, ease into it. Like, it’s okay to have yourself on the wall and you don’t need to be huge. But look, here’s nine little ones of you to, like, bridge that gap.

00:32:40:00 – 00:33:09:17

Exactly. You need to celebrate yourself, right? I mean, these women are coming in to see me because maybe they’re not had a picture of themselves in years or, you know, like a few of my clients have said, like, you know, they don’t have pictures taken because they have been told that they’re not attractive their whole life or they’re too fat or something. Right. But then they see these images and like, no, I’m awesome. And I’m like, yes, you are. You need to see yourself every day when you’re having those days where you’re like, I’m not feeling myself. And then you see those pictures on the wall. You’re like, No, I’m awesome.

00:33:10:03 – 00:33:27:09

Mm hmm. For sure. For sure. Now when? So let’s say they say, okay, I want the $3500 package and they order everything. How do you package those up? Like physically package them up? And also, does this come with digitals? And if so, how do you deliver the digitals?

00:33:27:28 – 00:33:58:05

So the image collections are in a folio. So like the leather folio from graphi, I have my studio logo on the front in like Silver Leaf and it’s the 6, 10, or 20 in that and it’s just kind of like that. I have bags that I had printed up with my logo on them with tissue and that’s put in there. And wall portraits, I don’t really package up because my clients always come back to my studio to pick up their images.

00:33:58:13 – 00:34:32:27

And if they have ordered a wall portrait or a nine up, I will hang the wall portrait up on my studio wall. So my studio used to be an art gallery. I’m in the gallery district of Denver at the Santa Fe Arts District is a gallery district, so it used to be an art gallery. So I have like the art gallery lighting still. And so when they come in, they see their images up on the gallery wall that they have purchased. So like their wall portraits or their lineup will be like, it’s in a gallery and they love to see that and they just kind of take it off the wall like that and take it home.

00:34:33:12 – 00:34:48:22

Ooh, I love that. Like, that sounds just really. What’s the word I’m looking for? Kind of high end. Gosh, what’s the word? What’s the word that describes high end, not bougie. I’m like.

00:34:48:26 – 00:34:49:11

Luxury.

00:34:49:13 – 00:34:57:06

Luxury. Thank you, Jeremy. I was like, what does that word again sounds very luxurious to just come in and see it up on the wall. It’s really, really great.

00:34:57:18 – 00:35:15:00

I cover it with a cloth too. So there’s like a reveal. You’ll see that if you go to my website, my marketing video that I just have made, my client has their canvas portrait revealed. I have a cloth on it and I drop the cloth and that’s I do that all the time and they I think that’s just amazing.

00:35:15:16 – 00:35:24:03

Yeah, that’s great. It’s just it adds another level of, like, luxury to your service. Very cool. All right. So then do you include digitals?

00:35:24:25 – 00:36:00:10

I do include digitals. At this point. I have given full resolution images, especially, you know, if they’re buying 16 or 20 in this photo collection, I’ll make sure you can do whatever you want with those. And most people are like, whoa, but gosh, you’re just like losing out on your on your wall portrait sales. I’m like, you know what? I have made what I need to make on these. And like, if they if they want to, you know, get cheap wall portraits, they’re more than welcome to. Most of the clients that I have are not the kind of clients that would do that anyway. I’ve had many people come back to me and order their wall portraits from me because they want that quality.

00:36:00:12 – 00:36:09:14

They see the canvases that I have in my studio and that’s what they fall in love with. They’re not going to order something from Shutterfly or something after they see those.

00:36:09:21 – 00:36:25:18

Yeah, yeah. I love my clients to have the digital copies as well because that’s so much of how I get my referrals and business because they post on social media and they tag me and people are like. Whoa. Like, those are amazing. And I get so many, you know, inquiries that way because of those digitals.

00:36:26:03 – 00:36:27:09

All the time. Yes.

00:36:27:26 – 00:36:41:05

Okay. So moving forward, let’s talk a little bit about marketing. Now, I know you have your Facebook ad. Is there anything else that really helps to get like your calendar to be fully booked the way it is?

00:36:41:27 – 00:37:14:19

To be honest, this Facebook ad, like I said, has completely put me through November. But I’ve I’ve recently, you know, in sometimes sometimes I have cancellations. I have a huge waitlist for this project. So that always fills those those cancellations. Well. But I found now that I have having photographed, you know, 200 plus women for this project, that is now my marketing group, really. So they’re all on my email list and I send out an email.

00:37:14:24 – 00:37:43:20

I try to anyway at least once a month, just kind of with studio happenings. What’s going on? I just had a head shot mini marathon on Friday and that was in an email that I had sent out like a week before, and that sold out instantly after I sent an email out. So those are my cheerleaders, right? Those clients that I photograph now for this project. And, you know, all of them have friends. All of them have seniors, all of them, you know, need family photos. So those are the people that I market to now.

00:37:44:04 – 00:38:01:16

Yeah. Email list. So, so good. So good that you brought that up because that really is such an incredible way to market. If you can get people on your list means everything. I’ve been working really hard on my email list lately as well, and it’s it’s definitely proving to work, that’s for sure.

00:38:01:25 – 00:38:27:04

Exactly. And they love you already, right? I like I said, my clients want to be my friend. And, you know, they will tell their friends about the great experience that they had. Right. If they if I send them this email saying it’s time for senior portraits, you know, who’s ready for senior portraits, etc., they’re like, Well, I don’t have a senior, but you know, so-and-so down the street does. I send her this email and it all the time. I get I get inquiries from that all the time.

00:38:27:21 – 00:38:35:16

Yeah, that’s great. Do you find yourself to be really active on social media or is it, you know, not something you focus a whole lot on?

00:38:36:08 – 00:38:44:00

I don’t focus a whole lot on it. I you know, I would love to be that guy that, like, uses Instagram all the time. Is that what the kids use nowadays? I have know idea

00:38:46:06 – 00:39:17:18

Tik Tok, who knows? I don’t know what’s going on with that. No, I do not really use it at all. I’m kind of a bad guy and I use my personal Facebook page for like reveals. I do. Sometimes I’ll do a sneak peek of I have a client that I really enjoyed and you know, that’ll get some engagement, but it doesn’t really get a lot of engagement for me. So I have not really spent a lot of time on it. Eventually, you know, down the line when I’m done with this project and you know, I need to fill my books with something else, I will probably maybe have someone help me with that. Is there anyone out there that can help me?

00:39:19:07 – 00:39:41:21

Well, it’s interesting, because sometimes when I interview people here on the podcast, it’s like social media is everything to me. Like Martha Felix, who I recently interviewed, she relies basically solely on her Instagram and Facebook, mostly Instagram. And then you’re like, I can take it or leave it. At this point, it’s like, there are so many different ways to do this and it’s just figuring out what works for you.

00:39:42:03 – 00:39:42:19

Exactly.

00:39:43:07 – 00:40:02:05

Yeah. Yeah. As much as I like, social media has helped get me to where I’m at today with, you know, all my clients and just everything. It’s like such a love hate. There’s a lot of pressure to be out there and posting. And so, yeah. So it’s kind of refreshing to hear you say, like, you know what? I don’t even spend a whole lot of time.

00:40:02:20 – 00:40:38:00

Exactly. Well, I mean, I do, but it’s mostly like scrolling and that’s my problem. I get really easily distracted. So I’m trying to post something and then I’m like, Oh, and then I just get stuck scrolling. I’m like, an hour later, I’m still doing it. I’m like, okay, we need to stop doing this. And it’s also about like, you know, when you post something maybe on Instagram or whatever, us as creatives, we’re like, Why is no one liking this? You know, I’ve only gotten five likes or, Oh, no, no one likes this. I had to take it down. We need that validation from people. And I think, you know, I’ve come to the point now in my career, in my life where I’m like, I don’t need that validation.

00:40:38:02 – 00:40:53:11

It’s I’m not competing with anyone. I’m, you know, I’m just competing with the older version of me. Right? And I don’t need as much validation anymore because I like what I do and my clients love what I do. Right. So I think that’s important to understand.

00:40:53:29 – 00:41:05:17

Jeremy, you are speaking my language. I don’t know if it’s just like getting older. I just don’t care as much anymore. Like, like you said, if my clients like it and if I like it. Awesome. I don’t know. That’s great.

00:41:06:00 – 00:41:06:15

Yes, ma’am.

00:41:07:15 – 00:41:17:01

All right. Well, thank you for sharing everything with me. I really, really appreciate it. I do have a couple more questions for you, though, that I ask at the end of each episode, if that’s okay.

00:41:17:18 – 00:41:18:03

Of course.

00:41:19:04 – 00:41:25:06

All right. Awesome. Number. One is what is something you cannot live without when you’re doing a photo shoot.

00:41:25:27 – 00:41:55:03

It’s kind of funny. I… My spider holster. Yeah. I’ve kind of found myself when I don’t have it. I have to. I have two different bodies, camera bodies, and one has the spider holster clip on the bottom and one doesn’t. And so when I’m using the other one, I find myself going to put it back in the holster and it’s not there. And I’m like, I don’t know what to do with this camera right now. So that’s that’s kind of the most important thing to me at the moment is this spider holster, which is kind of funny. But no, it really is.

00:41:55:17 – 00:42:14:10

That is 100% one of my can’t live without I’m naked without it. I’m like always like, oh, like, where’s my camera? What’s happening? Like, the very few times that I’ve forgotten it. It’s a disaster. Yeah. All right. Number two, is? How do you spend your time when you’re not working?

00:42:15:14 – 00:42:33:15

At the moment I am. So, like I said, I am also an actor. So I kind of act on the side for fun and, you know, have my own business. I can, you know, clear out my schedule however I want to. And I’m actually in a show at the moment. We opened on Friday, and that is what I kind of do in my spare time right now.

00:42:34:01 – 00:42:35:12

How exciting. What’s the show called?

00:42:36:05 – 00:42:43:11

It’s called 1776. It’s about the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It’s a musical. It’s kind of a weird premise for a musical, but it works.

00:42:43:28 – 00:42:49:15

Is that your profile photo on your personal Facebook right now. Is that why were where that photo came from?

00:42:50:02 – 00:42:50:23

Yes, I believe so

00:42:51:04 – 00:42:57:19

Oh, nice. Very cool. All right. Number three is, what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:42:59:04 – 00:43:14:10

There’s so many. But I think at this point in my life, there’s this quote by Winston Churchill that I like a lot. It’s success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

00:43:15:02 – 00:43:17:27

Hmm. Yep. Isn’t that the truth?

00:43:18:12 – 00:43:32:22

Right. Like you’re you are never, you know, 100% successful. You’re always learning. So keep learning and keep growing. And, you know, if you fail here and there, that’s just a learning opportunity. Just keep going.

00:43:33:15 – 00:43:40:15

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Number four is, what would you tell people who are just starting out?

00:43:41:16 – 00:44:13:11

The most important thing for me is, you know, yes, pretty much everyone can take a photograph. It’s really the connection that you have with your client that makes that photograph art. And, you know, whether it’s being goofy like me, whether it’s just having a chat with them, you know, put your camera down and talk to them and bring out their personality, you know, make their guard come down and, you know, and then photograph that person that way. It’s just that connection is, is what makes the most beautiful images.

00:44:13:13 – 00:44:15:24

And I think that’s the most important thing that we can do.

00:44:16:19 – 00:44:41:04

Yeah, I really love that. And it truly is so important because like we were talking about before, that is how you’re going to get referrals. That’s how that’s what makes people really want to talk about you is that experience. They don’t remember, you know, where they thought you were photographing them or, you know, even necessarily what you were saying to them. But it’s how they feel about you and how you made them feel about themselves that really, really makes a difference.

00:44:42:00 – 00:45:18:21

That is exactly right. Most of my clients, like I said, when they leave my studio, they have had the best time they have. I think one of my clients said I usually say like, stick your chin out and, you know, put your chin up. And she that stuck with her. She’s like, I left your studio and I had my chin up the rest of the week, and I’m like, That’s powerful. What we do is powerful, you guys. It’s super important. It’s not just taking photos. It’s, you know, giving these clients this experience and, you know, showing them in a way that they’ve not seen themselves show them in a way that you see them in the way that everyone else sees them.

00:45:18:23 – 00:45:20:21

And you will have a client for life.

00:45:21:21 – 00:45:41:23

Yeah, that gives me the goose bumps. It really does, because I can I can think back about, you know, just right away. I can see like a slideshow of the different clients that I’ve had that I know their shoot with me affected them big time in a positive way. There are just the certain clients that, you know, you made such an impact with and it’s such a great feeling.

00:45:42:07 – 00:46:06:10

It really is. And like I say, it’s a kind of joke about it. And like, I mean, if they don’t buy anything from their session, you know, I’m okay with it, right? Because I. I changed their life. Right. There’ve been a handful of clients, like I said, that that maybe didn’t buy anything from their session, but they were so transformed by it. And and, you know, feeling that and seeing that kind of made it worth it for me.

00:46:06:23 – 00:46:14:27

Yeah. Yeah. I love that positive attitude. Yeah, that’s great. Sweet. And then where can people find you online if they’re looking for you?

00:46:15:11 – 00:46:33:18

Well, my website is www.JeremyRill.com and I’m on Facebook and I am on Instagram. I think my Instagram is Jeremy Rill Portrait at the moment. I like to change it around every now and then and that’s it actually.

00:46:33:20 – 00:46:34:05

Awesome.

00:46:34:07 – 00:46:35:03

I don’t do social media that much.

00:46:36:06 – 00:46:49:21

It is Jeremy Rill Portrait because I follow you and everything. That’s what it is. Awesome. Well, thank you again, Jeremy. I always love chatting with you and hopefully I will see you. Are you. Do you think you’re going to come to The Portrait Master’s Conference this year?

00:46:50:02 – 00:46:52:15

Oh, yes, definitely. You know when it is. Are you guys going to.

00:46:52:22 – 00:47:00:00

Yes, we’re going to be announcing soon. Very soon. I cannot wait. I can’t wait. I know. It’s one of my favorite times of the year, so.

00:47:01:21 – 00:47:11:22

Yay! I’m glad to hear you’re going. That’s fabulous. All right. Well, thank you again. And I will see you online soon and hopefully in person soon, too.

00:47:12:03 – 00:47:13:18

Yes, ma’am. You can’t get rid of me.

00:47:14:19 – 00:47:47:11

This is the Portrait System Podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

 

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