FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors. 

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one, navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Hey, everyone.

Hey, everyone, for your Clubhouse bonus episode this week, your hosts Kevin and Ashleigh interviewed Darina Neyret if you remember Darina from her full episode number 61.

00:00:36:28 – 00:00:54:05

She is just such an incredible woman and has such a great story. Well, she is back to talk about the photo exhibition she recently did, and she also chatted about the experience she creates for customers in general and just having great customer service. OK, let’s get started with Kevin, Ashleigh and Darina.

00:00:54:16 – 00:01:24:20

Welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with the portrait system where a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce Education, Nikki Closser hosts our regular Monday episodes, and Ashleigh and I co-host our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific. Then our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for the portrait system. Ashleigh, how are you doing today?

00:01:25:02 – 00:01:27:05

I’m good, Kevin. How are you?

00:01:27:22 – 00:01:29:03

Not bad. Not bad.

00:01:29:10 – 00:01:37:06

And I’m so excited to introduce our guest for today, Darina Neyret, who is a portrait photographer from Vancouver, Washington. Darina.

00:01:37:22 – 00:01:39:03

That is correct.

00:01:41:01 – 00:01:42:03

Welcome.

00:01:42:21 – 00:02:22:11

Welcome to the podcast. You were previously interviewed by Nikki on episode 61 of the podcast, talking about your story and how you’ve had previous other businesses before you went into photography. We know with all your years of being in various businesses, you are a customer service expert. So we wanted to discuss creating a great experience for your clients in making people feel comfortable. So Ashleigh and I decided we wanted to go down your entire process to go through the different touchpoints that you control within your business to create the best experience possible.

00:02:23:00 – 00:02:31:12

So a good place to start is what has your past businesses taught you about customer service?

00:02:33:00 – 00:02:54:18

Well, mainly it’s about. You know, how do you treat people the way you want to be treated? So when I go to a business, it’s like I want people to know what they’re doing. I want them to make me feel safe and comfortable. I want them to be competent and I want them to deliver what they’re promising to deliver, right?

00:02:56:20 – 00:03:43:28

And this is from, you know, when I was 18, working in a record store all the way through being a graphic designer and then, you know, the various of the house I’ve lived by that where it’s like, I always am trying to do the best that I can. I’m continuously learning things. I’m continuously trying to improve the whole experience because it’s like, you want people to have a great experience with you because then they’ll spend money with you and then they might come back. That’s the thing. It’s like if you can get repeat business, that’s the highest like goal in a way, you know, because then you know, you’ve done, you’ve hit all those points and they remember you, and the next time they need something, they’ll come to you and that’s in any business.

00:03:44:14 – 00:03:51:27

I totally agree, like getting a referral where a customer is just such like means you did your job 100 percent?

00:03:52:05 – 00:03:58:12

Totally. Yeah, because I’m not going to go back to somewhere where they’ve missed on something, you know?

00:03:58:23 – 00:04:39:01

Yeah, exactly. Or what I was going to ask you is like, sometimes we do miss something, though. But I do always think that I read this in like a business book a really long time ago, but I don’t remember which one. But the idea that if you mess up with a client, it’s actually like a great opportunity to repair the relationship. And sometimes you can actually become more of a hero to your client by how you save the problem, whether that’s like maybe a print that gets delivered, but it’s not right and you make it right by reordering or something else.

00:04:39:07 – 00:04:45:00

So I was wondering, do you have any stories like that where you’ve been able to kind of right or wrong that happened in your business?

00:04:45:19 – 00:05:06:15

Oh, I’m sure there’s hundreds because yeah, it’s like you either have success or you learn something, right? Because I don’t treat anything as a failure, because exactly it gives you an opportunity to show your problem solving skills that you can think on your feet and you’re there for the people. You’re there for your customers, right? So let me thank.

00:05:08:03 – 00:05:44:02

Well, the one I remember that were the most, and it’s more of a creative thing that happened, so I was I was doing a shoot at the salon. I was creating actually a magazine for them because the salon owner saw my magazine and she’s like, I want one of those. I was like, Let’s do it. So she had her own clients come in and we blocked up the whole day and they were we were going to shoot all day in the studio. So well in the salon. Sorry. And she had these big giant windows with no curtains or anything at all along the front.

00:05:44:04 – 00:06:00:25

And at one point in the day, the Sun hit. One of the car windshields parked up front and bounced back in with all this like strange, glaring light, right where we were, you know? Yeah, I

00:06:00:27 – 00:06:01:22

no work

00:06:01:24 – 00:06:36:16

and I’m like, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? This is hitting, man. But then I really stopped and took a breath and looked at what was going on, I was like, Wow, I can really kind of use it. So there was all these like refracting cool actually lights on this backdrop that I had set up, and so I just used it. You know, it’s like it. It doesn’t go to plan like you didn’t plan. I didn’t plan on this, but it’s like, this is what happened. So how can I use it? And then it turned out to be really, really cool again.

00:06:36:18 – 00:07:07:03

But it’s yeah, adaptation and being able to think in the moment or just take a breath and not freak out and be there for yourself and for your client. Is it? Yeah, it’s huge. Yeah, and we all make mistakes. I mean, there’s always something that is potentially going to go wrong or can go wrong. And, you know, obviously with experience, you can anticipate more things like that. But it’s like, yeah, you’re never not going to ever make a mistake.

00:07:07:24 – 00:07:42:06

Yeah, exactly. It’s the grace in which you handle it. Yeah. Clear and communicative and step up to the plate with honesty to fix problems is just so major. Also, I was wondering, like you did mention that that was like a full day shoot, like how do you set boundaries with clients as well in terms of like expectations on time? Or do you ever feel like, you know, people take advantage? Or you know what I’m saying? Like, how do you set boundaries so that you don’t get into sticky situations with clients?

00:07:42:19 – 00:08:18:04

I don’t know. I think, yeah, this is all about communication. It’s about being really clear about what what the day is going to look like, what the timing is going to look like. And I don’t know, just kind of commanding the respect that that’s how it’s going to go. But also being supple enough to like, well, if it’s 10 or 15 minutes this way or that way, that’s OK, you know? Yeah. But just like outlining just let’s just like, say what the expectations are, say what the timeline is, say how it’s going to go.

00:08:18:24 – 00:08:50:08

And yeah, you know, I think I’ve never really come across anybody who was like, you said this was going to be an hour and a half and now it’s two hours or vice versa. You know, I’ve never had anybody kick back against how the day goes, you know? And that’s part of it. I guess my. My goal to make people feel really good is I actually achieve that, thankfully. But, you know, people come in and it does go the way I have laid it out and it does go well.

00:08:50:17 – 00:08:53:18

They do feel good and they, you know, so.

00:08:54:11 – 00:09:19:26

So let’s talk about the process of beginning of obviously you say you’ve laid everything out for your shoot to have a creative and successful process and experience for your client. Hmm. So let’s just say initial, a client initially reaches out to you. What is it? How are they initially contacting you? Are they reaching you through your website or are they reaching you through social media?

00:09:21:01 – 00:09:53:11

Mostly through my website. Once I met them in some way, it’s kind of a strange time because I’m a pre covid. I was doing a lot of in-person networking and, you know, showing my magazine and getting people that way. And then they would they would go to my website and actually fill out my little online form and get into the system. Now I’m I must confess, I’m floundering a little bit because I it’s like a whole mental switch to get people

00:09:54:26 – 00:10:30:18

not in person. So I luckily had some successful ads and I’ve had a lot of referrals this year, which is just wonderful. So mainly they’re filling out my form on my website and then I physically, I actually call them with my voice and, you know, I call them on the phone or they set up a Zoom call so we can, like meet each other and get to know each other. And it’s clear that that’s like a no pressure, you know, kind of get to know you and, you know, eight times out of 10, they book.

00:10:30:20 – 00:10:37:00

So as a millennial, that whole phone call thing is a foreign concept for me.

00:10:37:18 – 00:10:38:15

Hey, Kevin, I’m

00:10:38:19 – 00:10:39:26

A millennial, too, and I

00:10:39:28 – 00:10:42:04

get on the phone with my client. So don’t get me

00:10:42:19 – 00:10:49:15

wrong, I’m old school, I am old school and I say, I’m not. I’m not a millennial.

00:10:51:05 – 00:11:02:06

So on this phone call, are you trying to book them for the shoot during this time or are you trying to? So you say you’re doing are pushing them towards the Zoom call or are you preferring an in-person meeting?

00:11:03:02 – 00:11:08:16

If I get them on the phone, I’m definitely trying to book them like, read them when they’re hot.

00:11:09:12 – 00:11:15:15

So is that the is that? Would you consider that the consultation then? Yeah, OK.

00:11:16:01 – 00:11:52:28

Yeah, that’s the way I do it too. During it and actually, like this week, I did something that kind of scared the crap out of me, but I added a thing on my contact form, kind of inspired by Carrie Roseman, who we talked to last week that just said, like, what my starting prices are, which is like nine hundred dollars. So. And what that includes, and it’s like they have to check that they understand that that’s like the start. And then there’s like a little note that’s like packages range, like we’ll walk you through all the options, but you know, they can say, yes, I understand that that’s the starting price, or no, that’s not in my budget.

00:11:53:00 – 00:12:24:18

And it’s like, really scary. But I’ve had so many inquiries lately, which is like, awesome. But so often I get people on the phone and then like, I don’t know how they missed it because it is on my website, but they, like, somehow missed that. That’s like what it started. And they’re like, Well, that’s not really my budget. It’s like, I’m just not willing to like, shoot without that minimum order. Now, I used to have like a just like a small fee, but now I’m like, know I need like a nine hundred dollar commitment from the order or it’s really just not worth my time.

00:12:25:02 – 00:12:51:17

I, yeah, I’ll have to report back on like how that worked. But hey, talk to like some friends of mine who have different businesses and they they were all big fans and they’re like, You know what? It’s kinder to like the person inquiring to you because like, they don’t want to get on the phone if it’s not going to get there, right? It’s not like a good fit, either. Do you do anything like that, but like pre qualifies people before they get on the phone with you beforehand?

00:12:51:19 – 00:13:24:26

Not really. I mean, there’s some stuff on my website. There’s like the starting prices on the session free person and I think I have on there. I haven’t looked at it in a while. No, I’m pretty sure on there. There is also like a. Prepaid package, so like if you get an opinion or the full thing, yeah, so if you prepay its, you know, $2100 or whatever it is, and so and that has worked a couple of times. People who know what we do and our level of professionalism like they.

00:13:26:03 – 00:14:08:29

They know that that’s. Oh, yeah, OK. You know, and in the consultation, I tell because that is my average like twenty twenty two hundred or something is my average. So. It’s like I tell people that, you know, I mean, some people will spend five hundred dollars, that’s no problem, you know, not a problem. But most people are in the $2000 range. And so I immediately know, like if it’s, oh, it’s going to go, you know, if they’re like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I do. You know, this Sue Bryce education is so invaluable because I also know how to say, you know, make them feel safe with what’s going to happen when they see their photos and that, you know, you don’t have to decide this right now.

00:14:09:01 – 00:14:17:12

You can decide when you see them because you don’t know how many you’re going to want when you see them. And so you can choose then, like if that’s not a problem.

00:14:18:06 – 00:14:27:20

Exactly. I say the same thing. And even the little thing that I put on my inquiry questionnaire, it says, like, seems like what you spend is entirely up to you line.

00:14:28:07 – 00:14:30:09

So, yeah, totally.

00:14:30:11 – 00:14:33:15

As long as you’re willing to spend the nine hundred dollars by and what do you say?

00:14:34:25 – 00:14:46:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve been thinking of doing that too and upping that initial commitment of have it, you know, either go towards packages or whatever.

00:14:47:03 – 00:15:22:21

Yeah, exactly. That’s what my light goes towards what they end up buying. It’s sort of like a minimum order that I’m just trying. I’ve been trying it for a few months, but I just didn’t have it like I had it on my website. Like if they read like the facts and stuff like on yours, but they just didn’t have it like that’s it’s something that they had to like. Check before I got on a phone call with them that they understood the differences because it’s like not worth my time to get on so many phone calls that people weren’t prepared for the minimum order price point.

00:15:23:14 – 00:15:49:09

Mm hmm. But, you know, I mean, if I spend, if I get a lot of leads, like when I did the I did a Facebook ad and so I get it turned it on for like two days and got 100 leads. You know, spending a day calling them is not a big deal because, you know, I’ll book ten of those people. And yeah, it’s a lot because that’s a lot of income. So it’s like I can spend a day doing that. I don’t mind doing that, you know?

00:15:50:10 – 00:15:59:23

Yeah, exactly. I think it’s like I used to be like that, too. It didn’t bother me in terms of how much time. And then lately I’ve just had so much on my plate that it’s like

00:16:02:02 – 00:16:19:00

getting a bother. I know. Yeah. I think in business, like we know we need to change something when we’re starting to feel like resentful, you know what I mean? So, yeah, yeah, I think everyone has their own evolution of like when it’s time to make those changes. I’m going to toss it back over to Kevin for another question.

00:16:19:03 – 00:16:39:20

No worries. So Darina, you said, if you can try to get over the phone, you’ll go ahead and do that. What information? Because obviously you sit down, you’re able to go through so much between products and showing them in prints, maybe pricing. What is it that you’re going trying to achieve over the phone?

00:16:40:13 – 00:17:15:28

Well, trying to achieve conveying all the information so that they feel fully informed, you know, answer any questions and really, you know, trying to close, trying to get that, you know, so when let’s get you on the calendar, let’s get you booked. But mainly it is that that conversation and that really open communication about the process and what do they want? Let’s, you know, I’ll show you and tell you everything that’s on offer if they do come in for an in-person consultation, because sometimes I’ll get them on the phone and it’ll it’s like every conversation is different.

00:17:16:00 – 00:17:52:07

So, you know, hey, do you want to come by? Because if I know, because I’m OK, I’m in Washington, I’m in Vancouver, Washington, which is outside of Portland, Oregon, which is separated by a bridge which has a lot of traffic. So it’s like if you’re if you’re in Portland, I’m definitely going to keep you on the phone because I know it’s just to come, you know, just to come over the bridge through to Vancouver for a consultation might be a headache. I offer it, but I don’t expect it from people who are over the bridge. So if I know you’re in Vancouver or accountants are on my side of the the river, it’s like, Hey, come by and I’ll show you around and OK.

00:17:52:26 – 00:18:29:02

But you know, like I said, it’s a kind of transition period because of COVID. Like I’m I was only doing it on Zoom or on the phone up until now. Now I’m kind of like, Well, you know, you can come by and because I try to keep the touch points, the physical touchpoints to a minimum, you know? Yeah. Um, but yeah, that first call or first meeting is really trying to convey all the information. So they feel informed, they feel safe. They feel like this is going to be a private, you know, experience that it’s just me and the makeup artist.

00:18:29:04 – 00:18:40:18

And then, you know, just get them on that calendar trying to get them booked. Like, So hey, you know when? Are you available to do this? You know, here’s my session fee, blah blah blah, you know?

00:18:41:06 – 00:18:52:07

Can you talk a little bit about like your client onboarding process, like you get the payment you signed a contract like how do you what’s your process for getting them in?

00:18:53:02 – 00:19:31:05

Yeah, I I get them on. I tell them the the booking. You know, once we pick a date, we’ll collect the payment and that secures the date for you. So and that’s non-refundable. And then I I’m one of the I don’t do contracts thing. I’ll do a model release. So tell them about the model release and that the photos will be. There’s two years, however, they want online, I’ll get a print and digital and that I’ll be able to put them on my website unless they specify otherwise.

00:19:31:15 – 00:20:03:08

You know, I have two different model releases that so they can choose, whether because, you know, for boudoir and sometimes like, don’t put them anywhere. And sometimes, you know, they’re totally fine with it. So. And that’s pretty much it. I mean, I like I like to be thorough, but I like to keep it very simple, too. So that’s that’s pretty much it. And then it’s all a matter of designing their shoot. You know, I always have them do like a Pinterest board that we can share, and it’s a private board.

00:20:03:10 – 00:20:08:03

And then it becomes like a collaborative, fun, creative kind of thing.

00:20:08:26 – 00:20:19:05

Do you give your clients like a questionnaire or anything to fill out just to be on the Pinterest forgeries? Is that like pretty much just the Pinterest board?

00:20:19:14 – 00:20:32:26

It’s pretty much just the Pinterest board, because it gives me a real clear idea of what their taste is. You know, the vibe that they love, the the mood that they’re going for, you know?

00:20:33:14 – 00:20:46:23

Yeah, totally. Yeah. A long time ago, implemented I do a Pinterest board with some of my clients. Not all of them like honestly want to do one. Some of them are just like, You’re the expert. I’m super busy. I think also

00:20:46:25 – 00:20:47:26

that happens to yeah.

00:20:49:05 – 00:20:50:21

Screenshots from your website.

00:20:51:08 – 00:20:52:25

Or maybe they

00:20:53:14 – 00:21:12:13

are. But I have like a questionnaire because it’s mostly like questions that I can send to the hair and makeup artist. But just like about beauty preferences and stuff, because I feel and I don’t know if this has happened to you in the two and a half years that you’ve been in business, I think you said two and a half years right on the podcast with Nikki

00:21:12:17 – 00:21:14:02

It’s about that, yeah, yeah,

00:21:15:05 – 00:21:47:16

sometimes I would have issues at the shoot and it would all be around hair and makeup, and it would have been things that, like I realized if I had found it out ahead of time, it would have been kind of preventable. But I didn’t find it out ahead of time because I just didn’t know why I should have asked, you know, particular questions. And then we’re dealing with like a problem in the moment. And like, no matter how good my hair makeup artists are, you know, some people, it’s like, you do one thing and it kind of can’t be taken back.

00:21:47:18 – 00:22:03:11

Like once I had someone who wanted a straight hairstyle and that hair and makeup artist put like a kind of shine oil to just make the straight hair like look extra, like sleek, I guess. But the client, I thought it was great, but the client freaked out

00:22:03:15 – 00:22:04:13

and so on.

00:22:04:15 – 00:22:11:21

What did you put in my hair? It looks heavy and like it was just, oh yeah, it was horrible.

00:22:14:18 – 00:22:45:22

So after that and subsequently, like the questions have gotten longer with every little. Not that there’s a lot of incidents, but every single time, like questions like, do you have any products that you don’t like? You know, you don’t want under any circumstance to be used, do you have allergies? Are you allergic to perfumes or since that was another one, once I had a hair and makeup artist, you wore some perfume and the woman was like, Perfumes give me migraine. You have to get out of this room, right? I mean, like, horrible, right?

00:22:48:12 – 00:22:52:18

Well, yeah, I’m one of those people like perfumes will make me sick.

00:22:52:20 – 00:23:25:13

Yeah, I get that, too. My dad is like that. Yeah, I get it. But it was like I never thought to like, ask God. And then I never thought to tell my hair and makeup artist like, Make sure you don’t wear any perfume, you know? So like, now I just get all these little things ahead of time, and then I send it off to the hair makeup artist. So it’s like, you know what? Like, no mess ups here. I mean, I can’t guarantee that there won’t be something like that that, you know, is just beyond my control. But I do like to like when I on board, people ask all those things to try to prevent.

00:23:25:15 – 00:23:36:03

And it’s interesting to, you know, I thought of doing that. It had a time, but I guess I got really well. It’s it’s luck and experience, I suppose, because my my main makeup artists that have now.

00:23:38:18 – 00:23:52:01

She’s such a pro, and she asks all those questions in the moment when when they arrive, so she sits them down and she asks all those questions, Do you have any latex allergies? Do you have any perfume allergies? Do you have any preferences?

00:23:53:20 – 00:24:26:00

How are we? How do you usually do your makeup? How do you want it today? What do you use in your hair? How do you know, like all she goes through, like 10 minutes of just talking with them before she even starts? And so it’s like, That’s good. That’s yeah. I mean, she’s really, you know, she’s like me. She is serious about her business. She’s serious about being professional and she’s really good at what she does, and she makes people feel incredible as well. So it’s like dang, that’s great.

00:24:28:12 – 00:24:38:20

How do you handle reschedules? Because that’s another one, especially if you don’t have a contract that they sign, like ahead of time. Do you have any kind of rescheduling policy or anything?

00:24:39:09 – 00:25:17:17

Yeah, I tell them, You know, no problem. We can reschedule this one time. If it happens again, I will charge another fee. Most people well, I’ve had very few reschedules and incredibly the people who did, they already offered like if I need to pay another session fee, I’ll pay it again. Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. So I’ve been fortunate that way too. There was there’s been maybe in the tune of three years, there’s been maybe two reschedules and it was just once.

00:25:17:19 – 00:25:29:21

And so it wasn’t an issue. But I always tell them, like, you know, this is non-refundable. And then if they need to reschedule, I say, sure, no problem, I can always go do this one time. You know,

00:25:31:00 – 00:25:43:25

yeah, I have a kind of like a similar policy, but I do like require a certain amount of days out unless it’s like, you know, with covid now, obviously, I don’t want them to come in if they’re sick and then I’ll waive it.

00:25:44:04 – 00:26:22:00

But for sure, I think, you know, I’ve been I guess it’s the way I’m attracting people like I’ve just been attracting these really conscientious people who respect my time and respect me. And, you know, I respect them and their time, obviously. And just, I don’t know, it’s it’s been amazing. Amazing. I like, yeah, I blow in. It’s like I sit there sometimes like, wow, you know, like I had my I had an event last Friday to celebrate the 40 women over 40 that I’ve photographed over the last year or so.

00:26:22:02 – 00:26:26:26

And it’s like, how fortunate I was blubbering like an idiot. And then

00:26:28:18 – 00:27:03:10

when I got up to thank everybody for coming. And I think Jerry is listening to this. I see her here. She was there and probably saw me blubbering like an idiot, thanking her because it’s like the energy of all these people and the wonderful ness of all these people that I have photographed and how that reciprocal honoring and like Kumbaya. I mean, just completely just a love fest, because I do, you know, like I like family says, like, I’m not afraid to fall in love with these people.

00:27:03:12 – 00:27:16:11

And I genuinely because I genuinely love what I do. I genuinely love having people feel good through what I’m doing and providing, like, it’s magic.

00:27:18:03 – 00:27:18:18

You know,

00:27:18:29 – 00:27:19:29

yeah, I love that.

00:27:20:13 – 00:27:36:17

And so I think people feel that for me that my I’m not just like, OK, sit here for 10 minutes and I’ll get $2000 from you. It’s like, No, you know, you’re going to get all of me. Hmm. You know, because I I love this and you know,

00:27:38:02 – 00:27:51:21

and we are at the questions point and I see that we already do have a question. So I’m going to go ahead and bring Noel Scott on stage while we’re just waiting for Noel. I’ll toss it to Kevin to.

00:27:52:24 – 00:28:14:19

No worries. I do want to. I did want to go back and ask, because you said something interesting that kind of caught my attention is you don’t do contracts. Why? When? When you know, the photography community says, have a contract? I know. Why is it that you don’t run with one?

00:28:15:12 – 00:28:45:23

Well, the part of the photography community is kind of like me. There are a few of us like this because I just I feel like I want to build the human contact trust with people. And I I personally love me personally. I always felt icky sending contracts, and there was always this weird thing in my body going, I don’t like this. I don’t know why.

00:28:45:25 – 00:28:46:10

I just

00:28:48:04 – 00:29:08:24

I want them to just get to know me and trust me and and trust the process. And, you know, being able to deliver what I say, I’m going to deliver and do what I’m saying. I’m going to do. I don’t know. I guess people feel that. I don’t know. I just I I just felt like it was too much of,

00:29:10:17 – 00:29:19:01

I don’t know, like, I don’t trust you. You have to sign this thing. So that’s, you know, it’s you know, it’s weird, but I just let me know.

00:29:19:09 – 00:29:57:28

Totally understandable. I ask because I know another, you know, a very good photographer has been in the business for a long time, very successful. And the one time when I went to go sit down to talk to them, they told me like, Yeah, I don’t use a contract. You know, I have this little tiny thing that is on the back of like their order that there’s a little blurb or something. But they felt that the signing of a contract removed the the. I’m here to have fun and an enjoyable experience, and by all of a sudden, I’m not having them sit down and sign something.

00:29:58:00 – 00:30:02:24

I felt so official removed that element of,

00:30:03:05 – 00:30:07:00

yeah, because it’s like a really serious legal document.

00:30:07:03 – 00:30:16:16

Exactly. It’s like all of a sudden you took that, you know, girls day out and turned it into an official piece of, you know, contract.

00:30:17:16 – 00:30:19:10

Yeah, know. Yeah, yeah,

00:30:19:24 – 00:30:58:05

I’m not going to play devil’s advocate here that I do use the contract. I call it a photoshoot agreement, but it is basically electronically signed contract. I’ve been in business for a really long time and I do think that there’s something really honoring about laying out what the agreements are between two people and saying, like, this is what I’m going to deliver for you. And I am also signing what I am going to deliver for the amount that you’re going to pay me and you are honoring your side of the bargain as well and just having it be really clear.

00:30:58:07 – 00:31:31:04

And like when I tell people about it, that is how I call it. You know, I do call it an agreement. I do tell them that, you know, it explains what I’m providing to you so that you are really clear on what you are getting. And it goes over our policies so that we can have like the best experience together because I do feel like, you know, just going back to the communication and boundaries thing, which to me is like where problems arise, like if you don’t have things laid out, if something was said verbally if something wasn’t clear, you have no defining agreement to go back to.

00:31:31:13 – 00:31:52:01

And then it just can really open up a can of worms. There have been times when I thought to myself, Oh, this person’s cool, I don’t need to follow through with that well. Sometimes, you know, that’s when you learn comes up. And I used to be a wedding photographer is like real careful with contracts for that outside. You know,

00:31:52:03 – 00:31:55:13

if I was doing weddings, I would definitely use a contract. Yeah.

00:31:55:29 – 00:32:26:10

Yeah, branding portraits like having things in writing so that if you know the bad stuff does happen or even you drop the ball on what you said you were going to deliver, there is some protective agreement to go back to. And just like as a, you know, a business owner, if you’re running like a six figure business like you do want to protect your assets. As much as possible, and I do think it’s important for people to be careful, especially if you’re taking deposits, you’re saying it’s not refundable.

00:32:26:12 – 00:32:46:21

I mean, you know, it just it gets when money gets exchanged in hands, it can get kind of sticky sometimes. So I always think better to be safe than than sorry. And if you can explain it to people in a way of the benefit, it doesn’t have to make it like, Well, we’re doing serious business here. And you know.

00:32:47:09 – 00:32:55:12

Yeah, I mean, the way you say, it sounds really nice. It’s like at the end of the day,

00:32:55:25 – 00:33:15:10

if someone were using a contract in, they’re like, I don’t like this like to me, it’s a huge red flag because usually like, they’ll get really picky over things that you’re just like. That’s something that’s there for a really clear reason to protect me. And the fact that like, you want me to take that out as a massive red flag.

00:33:17:04 – 00:33:46:29

So I just figure, you know, if any problems arise, there’s a way of working things out. You know, there’s if you dropped the ball on something, you know, it’s like, I would offer a reshoot or I would. Whatever the problem is like, I feel like there’s always a solution and there’s always a way to come through somehow, whether it’s a refund or a redo or fix something. You know, it’s I just always feel like there’s a way of working things out.

00:33:47:03 – 00:33:53:12

Yeah, for sure. And like, I never like if there’s some sort of issue, I’m never like, Well, the contract says this, you know?

00:33:54:04 – 00:33:58:02

Yeah, that’s not the way I act with my clients.

00:33:58:04 – 00:34:30:21

But at the same time, like I have had some people who like they’ve rescheduled all tried to reschedule a whole bunch of times and we’re super late like they were apologetic, but they’re like, Well, this came up in then this came up, you know what it says in my contract? Like, I have a hair makeup artist. I have to, you know, I’m on the hook for her as well. This is my business. And then they’re like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don’t know if I didn’t have that in writing. Like what? You know, maybe it would have worked out the same and they would’ve been like, Oh, I see your point.

00:34:30:23 – 00:35:00:24

But like, it was nice to be able to like, copy and paste like you initialed this part of the agreement. And just a reminder like this is why that agreement exists. Just a reminder for everyone. We are open for questions. Someone had a question, but then she didn’t end up accepting that invitation to come on stage. So anyone who has a question for Darina about customer service, boundaries, client issues feel free to raise your hand. And Kevin, I’ll toss it back to you three.

00:35:00:26 – 00:35:18:19

And so at this point, we’ve said we agree with the consultation. We finish everything up. One thing that I saw on your site is you send them something called your preparation guide. Yes, please tell me what that is and what you know. What is it that they’re getting?

00:35:19:05 – 00:35:38:03

It’s a basically a magazine that is in PDF form that I send to them that has tips on, you know, how to flatter certain body types, how to dress, what to bring, how to prepare, you know, stay hydrated.

00:35:40:28 – 00:36:15:02

It’s kind of a combination of Emily London’s preparation guides and Kara Maries. So it has something for our clients, something for branding clients and something for glamour and beauty. Because a lot of people, you know, they’re like, Well, can I start out, you know, can I get a few headshots while I’m here? And maybe I’ll do something a little sexy, but then I want to do the tulle gown, whatever, you know? So it’s like, I do go through, you know, half the women I shoot or doing kind of a combo session with me.

00:36:15:04 – 00:36:25:25

So it’s like so encompasses, you know, how to dress for, you know, what colors to wear, what you think of your brand or whatever, and then some boudoir tips and stuff.

00:36:25:27 – 00:36:28:23

But I mean, you’re

00:36:30:15 – 00:36:39:00

posing kind of like prior to the day of shoot. Is that just that they’re comfortable knowing what it is that you’re going to have them do?

00:36:39:22 – 00:37:05:03

Oh, I don’t have posing in the preparation guide now. Oh, OK. Just. Preparing. Wardrobe for different scenarios and different setups and then kind of photos to give examples of different things that I do like branding and glamour and boudoir and then stuff like that, you know, I haven’t looked at it in a while. I have to look at it again and see what’s in there.

00:37:06:03 – 00:37:25:09

Gotcha. And so after you’ve given them this and now you’re making your way towards the shoot, is there anything that you do within that time to the day of the shoot that you’re helping build rapport with your clients, anything to get them to know you or you to get to know them?

00:37:26:09 – 00:37:56:29

I stay in communication with them a couple of times between the consultation and the shoot. Just, you know, I touch base with them. Hey, how’s everything going with your preparations? You know, I’m here for you if you want to call me with any questions and here again, the link to the Pinterest board, throw some stuff in there. And then like two days before the shoot, I’ll just pop out an email or text depending on what the what they prefer or just say, you know.

00:37:57:02 – 00:38:30:17

So looking forward to seeing you on Friday and any last minute questions are welcome. And then they usually and you know, the other thing about my clients is they’ve always been on time. I think there’s one person that it was ever late and it was like 20 minutes late. It’s it’s been amazing. So fortunate. Yeah, I think that but being a really building respect and rapport and trust and honor, you know that I’m really honoring them.

00:38:30:27 – 00:38:49:18

It’s it becomes reciprocal. And that’s that’s the most important thing for me about customer service. And I think that’s proof in the pudding is is that I’ve had so few issues with people being late or people just respecting my time or scheduling or whatever. It’s just been.

00:38:51:05 – 00:38:51:24

It’s been really good.

00:38:52:12 – 00:39:04:20

So I won’t talk about the day of the photoshoot, but we’ll discuss a few things beforehand to consider the studio space a significant touchpoint for your you and your client.

00:39:06:03 – 00:39:13:12

Yeah, it’s like it’s a closed set and it’s safe and it’s comfortable. And, you know,

00:39:14:14 – 00:39:22:16

I have specific that you’re doing within your studio space to make them feel more comfortable on set

00:39:23:14 – 00:39:50:14

besides the privacy factor. I mean, it’s, you know, there’s a couple of couches in here and there’s I have a water cooler and a fridge that is like bubbly water still water. I always have a few chocolates. I don’t go out and out and cater the event because I don’t. Nobody eats. I can make tea or coffee. And nobody, everybody comes with their kind of big lattes. You know,

00:39:52:11 – 00:40:05:04

it’s just it’s that comfort of, you know, that this is a safe space and there’s a couple of couches and you can put your stuff here. And I’ll take that and you can look through this and then make my makeup artist. And

00:40:06:28 – 00:40:21:03

it’s kind of an extension of my living room in a way, you know, just trying to be friendly and calm and welcoming and happy and. And people are excited to be there, so, yeah.

00:40:21:22 – 00:40:32:24

So what do you what would you recommend for the people that are just starting out? They might not have a big fancy studio and maybe they’re running it out of their home or garage?

00:40:33:29 – 00:40:35:24

Well, I started off in my living room.

00:40:38:00 – 00:41:10:06

I had V flats and one light, and I would have to push my couches out of the way to set up. And I had my dining room was where they got their hair makeup done. And it’s it’s the same, really. I mean, I just got very tired of, you know, breaking down my living room and putting it back and breaking it down and putting back and having to set up every single time. So once I started, like it made sense for me to pay rent on a space.

00:41:10:26 – 00:41:14:15

I was really excited for that reason. Otherwise,

00:41:16:01 – 00:41:58:00

I don’t think people feel any different with me. And when I was shooting at home or when I was shooting in the studio, I don’t feel like there’s a difference in the experience because, like what they say. It’s like, people don’t remember all that stuff. They just remember how you made them feel, right? So and I think that’s really true. And because I don’t I don’t really notice a difference. I mean, now it’s like I have more space, so I can have like three different backgrounds set up already so I can move through a shoot with, you know, really easily and efficiently because I have more space to set up more kind of backdrops or lighting setups.

00:41:59:09 – 00:42:32:09

But I don’t think people on the client experience, and I don’t think people feel different. It doesn’t seem to be so I, you know, I encourage anybody to start from your house. You know, don’t spend all the money on rent when you’re just starting out because it’s perfectly fine to be in your living room or your garage and have a studio space like that’s because it is about customer service. You can do customer service anywhere. I mean, even Nikki talks about, you know, selling in Starbucks, you know?

00:42:34:03 – 00:42:39:17

Yeah, it’s really about what your energy is and how you hold the space for people, for sure.

00:42:39:19 – 00:42:41:15

Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:42:41:24 – 00:43:22:14

Um, Dorina, I know you recently did a Exhibit of your 40 over 40 project, and I really wanted to hear about how that also plays into the customer service experience because I would imagine that getting your clients together in a way where they can all see gorgeous images of each other brings bring friends potentially. I don’t know exactly how you did it. It’s very similar to Sue’s champagne party videos, and I know it can be so successful and generate a lot of buzz like how do you feel a party like that plays into our business models in customer service in general?

00:43:23:09 – 00:43:57:09

Well, this was the first time I did anything like that, and it was definitely a learning experience. You know, I had the thinking that it will be, you know, these 40 women and they would bring friends and family and I would get like 20 bookings in the night, you know? But because of COVID, the numbers, I mean, everybody came like it was great turnout, but it was mainly the subjects, you know, my 40 women.

00:43:57:21 – 00:44:19:29

And they definitely brought friends. But most of them came solo or with a daughter, which is wonderful. So actually, it was kind of like a client appreciation party. So I had to adjust my mindset because I was like, you know, obviously I’m not going to keep selling to these 40 women who just did this and we’re celebrating them and the photos that they did this year, so.

00:44:22:17 – 00:44:38:07

So once I adjusted my brand, OK, this is really a quiet appreciation party, then I didn’t have that kind of stinking disappointment. But, you know, I only booked three people that night or two. Yeah, three people. So but I’d say three bookings, you know, but

00:44:39:16 – 00:44:49:21

that’s a great paradigm shift just from, yeah, yourself out of that mental funk to, you know what? These are the people that have brought me. Yeah, year and even.

00:44:49:23 – 00:45:17:27

And I didn’t publicize it widely because I was afraid, you know, I did it in my studio. I was like, I can’t have, you know, more than 40 people at a time in this space, you know, like, I didn’t want it to be overflowing a superspreader event. Yeah. Or or, you know, have any, but it just takes one person, right? And even though everybody that I photograph have been really wonderful,

00:45:19:14 – 00:45:51:18

they’re all vaccinated. They’re all, you know, but it’s like, I can’t control everything. And there’s know the numbers right now with COVID are are really high. So it’s like, I just wanted to make sure, OK, let’s I’m not going to over publicize this, you know? And so it becomes like, OK, this is a client appreciation around, and it was absolutely spectacular. I mean, it was the energy and the excitement and the love and the women being able to meet the other women and see their photos because I’ve kind of kept it under wraps.

00:45:51:20 – 00:46:30:08

That would be kind of a surprise that people would be seeing stuff for the first time on the wall. And, you know, so now I’m going to be blogging like crazy with everybody’s photos. So because I need to work on my SEO., so I’ll be blogging everybody’s stories. You know, I interviewed every, every one of these ladies with. They sent out a questionnaire from my CRM. And you know, there were like 10 or 15 questions and people could answer however many they wanted whatever resonated with them, and they pulled some of their own words and put them up next to their photos.

00:46:30:10 – 00:46:59:23

So the photos were these beautiful mega mattes from Graphic Studio, and they were right up on the wall with a little card on the side with their own words. And people kept coming up to me the whole night like, Oh my god, I can’t believe your stories. They’re so beautiful. And what they’re saying about the experience or being this age is so inspiring, and I was just like, the energy was just off the charts. I mean, it took me three or four days to come down. Literally, you know,

00:47:01:13 – 00:47:15:19

it was just beautiful. And I think it was memorable for me, certainly. But I think memorable for everybody who was there, you know, in the future, they’ll remember me when they need another photo. Yeah. You know,

00:47:16:14 – 00:47:38:28

I was going to say sometimes client appreciation parties where just other clients are talking to other clients like it kind of reinforces amongst your clients like, Oh, you had a great experience. Do you like, we all need such a great choice? And then they leave with this like even more elevated kind of our impression of the whole thing, it’s like a nice little cap off to everything.

00:47:39:10 – 00:47:40:05

Yeah, I was

00:47:40:07 – 00:47:54:20

doing a lot of client appreciation parties like when you’re quarter before, before COVID, I haven’t done one sense because as you know, I have a tiny studio, so I can’t really get more than 10 people without it starting to feel like super

00:47:54:22 – 00:47:57:11

Packed. Yeah, yeah.

00:47:57:27 – 00:48:00:27

It’s definitely not a COVID friendly event.

00:48:01:09 – 00:48:31:23

It’s yeah, I was. I was gonna say also that what a fantastic way to cap off their experience. Not only do they have the shooting experience, but they now get the opportunity to see it reinforces that experience. And now, yeah, the images to then go out because I’m assuming, yeah, I feel pretty good about an event. How you’re going to be sharing those images if you feel absolutely fantastic. And as you said, you’re riding the high for four days.

00:48:32:06 – 00:48:43:25

Yeah, you’re more likely as a client who now has these products to walk away thinking, Oh my God, this is the best thing ever. And there, yeah, then post on their own social media, they’re going to

00:48:44:11 – 00:48:47:10

show, Oh yeah, many people have already,

00:48:49:01 – 00:49:14:16

you know, I know that they felt really special, like they just they’re so proud of their photos and they feel so invigorated in their own lives and in their own perception of themselves and being able to share it with the other people who’ve gone through the experience, too, but just going out in the world in general, I think they. There.

00:49:16:09 – 00:49:24:12

Changed in a way. I don’t want to say like I change people’s lives, but in a way we do that. I think we really do do that.

00:49:25:03 – 00:49:27:14

Sure, I think only you change your life.

00:49:27:16 – 00:49:57:19

Yeah, I guess I should sound so arrogant or something, but I guess it’s not. It’s not true. It’s. It’s I’ve definitely spoken to some of these women who have absolutely a weight has been lifted on how they see themselves or, you know, they don’t. There was one woman not from this project, but from a couple of years ago who, you know, she was like, I hate my profile. I hate my profile.

00:49:57:21 – 00:50:27:24

Don’t take my picture in profile because I’ll break your camera lens, you know, like that. But one of those? Yeah. And it was like, So we do this action and I’m going through the photos and doing the cull, and I see this one photo of her kind of in profile like three quarter profile that is staggeringly gorgeous. So I’m like, should I put this in there or not? Like, is she going to kill me if I put this in there? So I put it in because I’m like, This is just incredible. So this is what I was doing.

00:50:28:09 – 00:50:58:10

Printed reveals And so she’s looking through the photos and she keeps coming back to that one and keeps looking and I came back to that one and I kept looking and I come back. And so I asked her. You know, hey, so I noticed you kept looking at that one. How are you feeling? And she started crying. She was like. This is my favorite photo, and I don’t have to think about this anymore. Choking up, thinking about it, like she’s like, I, I don’t have to think about this anymore. This is my favorite photo.

00:50:59:03 – 00:51:03:26

Like, Oh my god, it’s mind blowing. How wonderful it is. You know,

00:51:05:13 – 00:51:15:00

with the event, did you give people like the mega mattes that you created or how did that part work? Was that like a gift to them or I actually.

00:51:15:14 – 00:51:43:06

So I was like, How can I at least kind of make my money back without selling them another copy of something they already have? Yeah. So I sold them off. And it was a fundraiser for N.W. Cave, which is the National Women’s Coalition Against Violence and Exploitation. And the president was there. She spoke. I had her speak a little bit about what they’re doing and stuff, which they do incredible work. And

00:51:44:21 – 00:52:23:12

so it became a fundraiser for that. So I did cover my costs. I sold about 10 of them for 150. The cost of them was like 50 bucks. And then, yeah, so I made it a fundraiser and everybody was really excited about that. And the magazine. I made a magazine of everybody’s photo with their little quote, with their photo and sold those also for fifty dollars for also to go to NWA caves. So that that really helped me kind of like, Oh okay, I at least broke even as far as cost goes, but then I have something to give to something I really believe them to.

00:52:23:15 – 00:52:37:06

Yeah, I love that you made it a fundraiser, too, because it just also speaks to like, you know, that your business gives back and that your community driven and like commerce, buy from you. They’re not just buying from you, but buying from.

00:52:38:10 – 00:52:59:11

Supporting something. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, that’s true. And I want to do that more. I’m definitely going to do that more in the future. Like, have events or something where they know that, you know, a percentage or something is going to go to. To NW cave or some other cause that I feel like I want to give to you.

00:53:00:10 – 00:53:01:15

So that’s really amazing.

00:53:02:18 – 00:53:10:26

So how much time when you’re building this event where you’re putting off for people, how much time and how much money would you say you’re having to put into it?

00:53:12:15 – 00:53:22:15

Time. Well, let’s see, there was the creation of the magazine, which I’m really good at it now, so that took a couple of hours because I already had the photo

00:53:24:18 – 00:53:41:02

and there wasn’t any intricate design because it’s just a photo with some words on it. So that was a couple of hours ordering. The mega-mattes is not too much of a problem, because, like I said, the photos already exist. So that was, you know, an hour.

00:53:43:06 – 00:53:48:25

Setting up the day. You know, I spent a day putting the room together.

00:53:50:14 – 00:54:21:09

And then talking with people like NW Cave and the frame shop from down the street, they were involved as well and gave a little swag bag to everything. All the clients to, you know, get a certain percentage of framing their mega-matte out if they bought a mega-matte. So talk to them for an hour or two. And I think it’s spent and everybody got it like a little baby bottle of champagne and some chocolates and stuff like that, so I think I spent about 2500 to 3000 total.

00:54:22:09 – 00:54:39:17

Because the site, because it was in my studio and I didn’t have room the finish size of the mega mattes was 15 by 20 inches, so I would love to have gotten bigger, but obviously the cost would have gone up and I didn’t have room for that. You know, 40 photos is a lot of photos, so.

00:54:41:26 – 00:54:59:27

So it was a 15 by 20. So, yeah, totally with, you know, champagne and magazines and fruit, it was probably about $3000. I have yet to. I’ve been on such a high. I haven’t even crunched my numbers and it was just last Friday, so I have to do that soon. But it’s in that ballpark.

00:55:00:22 – 00:55:18:28

Well, fantastic. Darina we are coming up on the one hour mark. But before we let you go, if you can tell us, what would you say the best possible advice that you could potentially give someone in regards to customer service to make them have the best possible experience for their clients

00:55:19:15 – 00:55:40:08

clearly lay out what you’re going to do and deliver as much as humanly possible exactly what you’re saying in you and maybe even overdeliver. You know, throw in something that’s a little bit surprising or over the top, but but definitely do what you say you’re going to do with love and devotion and care.

00:55:41:19 – 00:55:47:00

Fantastic. Yeah, very much. And it has been an absolute pleasure having you on with us.

00:55:47:09 – 00:55:48:24

Thank you so much.

00:55:49:01 – 00:55:55:14

Before we let you go, we want to be sure to let people know where to find you, so if you can go ahead and share your socials with us.

00:55:56:14 – 00:56:04:07

So my name, as you can see, is spelled D-A-R-I-N-A. So my website is Darina Photo.com

00:56:05:22 – 00:56:21:25

Email is hello@darinaphoto.com and the business name is Darina Neyret Portrait. So my Instagram is Darina underscore Neyret underscore portrait. And but I’m not on Twitter and

00:56:24:10 – 00:56:24:25

Twitter

00:56:24:27 – 00:56:26:00

gets people in trouble. So the good job

00:56:26:02 – 00:56:26:17

Staying off that,

00:56:28:04 – 00:56:34:27

I don’t even. It’s like there’s enough to do without.

00:56:34:29 – 00:57:12:10

Awesome. Everyone, please go follow Darina and also be sure to follow the portraits system on Instagram and on Facebook as well.

Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education, you have any more questions for David, Ashleigh or myself go tag us in a post in the Sue Bryce Members Only Facebook group.And on Instagram, you can find Ashleigh at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait that is A S H L E I G H. And you can find me at Pop Light Photography. If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education and you have any more questions for Darina, Ashleigh or myself, please go tag us in the SBE Members Only Facebook Group. If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, and you are interested in learning more about how we can help you and your business succeed, email Ella with support at support@SueBryceEducation.com.

Thank you again for joining us and we hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.