FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

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You’re listening to the Portrait System podcast.

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I came to a crossroads and I had to decide, like, am I going to take this chance on myself or am I going to put it aside and slow down and just stick to my office job and move forward?

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This is the Portrait System Podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

Today’s guest is Nicole Farough, and she’s a photographer in Canada who quit her great paying government job not too long ago to become a full time photographer. Nicole has four kids, and she was just so ready to be done with the life of an eight to five job to be able to not only spend more time with her family but to do something that she loves. Nicole started as a shoot and burn photographer, and we chat about the different processes for getting her sales average up to what it should be. And we also talk about getting into a good mental space in order to gain the confidence to make a big change to going full time with your business.

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Nicole has a ton of wisdom and really puts things into perspective and a great way, and I loved interviewing her. All right, let’s get started with the show with Nicole Farough. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

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Hi. I’m great. It’s so great to hear your voice.

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I’m excited to chat. Yeah, I don’t know a whole lot about your stories. I mean, I know some of the basics of it, but I’m really excited to learn more. And I think that what you’re going to talk about and just everything that you’re going through will resonate with a ton of people. So this will be good. This is exciting.

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Hmm. OK, I hope so. I hope it’ll resonate. I know it’s going to be fun. I just hope it resonates.

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Yeah, I have a feeling it will. I definitely have a feeling it will. OK, so why don’t you just give our listeners an idea of where you live, what you typically shoot and how long you’ve been doing this?

00:02:09:28 – 00:02:41:03

OK, sure. So I am Canadian. I live in Ottawa, which is the capital city of their country. I am a wife and a mom. I’ve got four kids ages youngest of six. My oldest is 13 and I started well. I’ve always been around photography. My father had a wedding photography business when I was in my twenties. Yeah, he’s always been like a hobby photographer, so it was always around cameras and he was an avid shooter.

00:02:41:05 – 00:03:12:00

So I would I helped him out with his, with his business. When I was in my twenties and university, I would tag along on on shoots and weddings and that. But it wasn’t until I was a mom with kids. It was actually when I was pregnant with my fourth and I realized that I didn’t have the work-life balance that I wanted. Yeah, and also that would support having so many kids like it. It was my husband and I was.

00:03:12:02 – 00:03:46:04

We’re both working very nine to five jobs, very stable, well-paying jobs with benefits and vacation and everything. But my kids were spending several hours and and before and after school care or daycare a week, which was really expensive. And, you know, and I just it was getting to that point where I felt like I was just working to keep them in daycare and I didn’t want to be doing that anymore. I didn’t. I didn’t want to be just working for it to pay someone else to raise my children.

00:03:46:06 – 00:03:58:06

So. So yeah, so that kind of sparked the idea. And and but it was when I was on maternity leave with my with my youngest, my fourth, when I really started to

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learn more about shooting and, you know, getting off manual, really making the most of my camera quickly realized that I realized I needed a little. I needed upgrade. My camera. Sold a bunch of the children’s toys and baby stuff so I could buy myself more professional grade camera and and yeah, and then, of course, just shot everything and anything I could.

00:04:27:09 – 00:04:44:29

And and those things kind of came together where it started to become a possibility in my in my head that I could use this to create a new life for myself that would support me having a work life balance. That was what I wanted. That would help,

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you know, help me spend more time with my kids and doing something that I was what was I really cared about and that I was passionate about. And of course, then it gets to that point where you realize that. You have to decide whether you’re going to take the chance on yourself or not, because you realize like I either have to go all in or I have to say, OK, this is fun, but let’s get back to real life kind of thing. Right. So yeah, so I had to make that choice. And for a while I was I went back to work after my maternity leave in Canada.

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We got like a really great maternity leave because we have a year off after we have our kids, after we have a baby. That is amazing. Yeah, and it is. It’s great.

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America is so way behind on this. It’s absolutely absurd and obscene.

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I honestly couldn’t. I really honestly couldn’t imagine, like I really couldn’t imagine going back to work after it. But I think it’s six weeks. You guys, you guys get six weeks.

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So I mean anything, you can take the time legally, but you don’t get paid.

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Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I took a year and then some because we financially could afford it. I just took a leave without pay to just spread out my time. So is back at work full time with all four kids in daycare or school, and I was working 40 hours a week. I had started my business and I was trying to grow it. And that’s when it really came. Kind of push comes to shove because I just couldn’t. I realized I couldn’t keep growing the business.

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I guess I could, but it was extremely difficult. I wanted I started the business with the sole purpose of creating a new income stream for myself so that I could spend more time with my kids and have that freedom. But working a full time job and then putting an extra 20 hours or more into a week growing the business, I was burning out

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so I can see why. I can definitely see why.

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And my kids were really like, especially my older ones were really starting to resent me because they knew what was going on. So, you know, here they had mom at home while I was on maternity leave and then almost overnight, I’m working 40 hours a week and then every spare moment I have off work, I’m working my other job. So they started to really like they started to notice and it was becoming a problem. So yeah, and that’s what I mean. I had to I came to a crossroads and I had to decide, like, am I going to take this chance on myself? Or am I going to put it aside and slow down and just stick to my office job and move forward?

00:07:27:11 – 00:07:58:10

Yeah, I mean, I think what you went through is something that is so relatable to so many working families out there. It’s not. I mean, even my oldest is in kindergarten now, but my youngest goes to daycare three days. My kids have always gone to daycare. Well, once my son, my oldest turned a year old, they’ve always gone to daycare three days a week, and those three days a week are great for me and my business and just my mental capacity of needing to not be a mom. 24-7. Oh yeah, but man, it’s hard.

00:07:58:13 – 00:08:30:11

They get sick a lot from being at daycare, which supposedly helps our immunity down the road. But that sucks right now. Yeah, they get sick a lot. There are times when it’s teary drop off. You know, one of them’s crying like it is hard. And then you have to then do that five days a week and go to your job and then pick them up. And that’s what dinnertime. And then by the time you get home, you eat dinner, read a book and they go to bed. Yeah, and then you have to do. I mean, it’s just I think it’s a story for so many working working parents and families.

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And sure, it’s hard. It’s like a hard,

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hard, hard struggle that grind. It’s so real. I remember being so pregnant with my fourth and of course, very hormonal, but breaking down to my husband because I was pregnant, working full time, carting the three kids back and forth to school, daycare, doing that whole grind, like you said, barely doing dinner bath bed and my collapsing at the end of the day. I remember just breaking down thinking, how am I going to do this with my kid kids like I the fourth, really, it was, you know, looking back, it was it was really a pivotal.

00:09:06:08 – 00:09:37:15

It was a life changer. And I mean, you know, I guess you can have your opinions, whether there’s much of a difference between three and four, but it was more the mental shift around four like all of a sudden we were a big family and three was already a lot and then I was, you know, expecting a fourth. So yeah, it really made me reevaluate a lot of things that were going on, and I’m I’m thankful for it. It was stressful and I, you know, I really struggled with my mental health through that period.

00:09:37:29 – 00:09:55:22

But looking back, I realize that without that, uncomfortableness without that, that that pressure, I probably wouldn’t have it wouldn’t have given me that push that I might have needed to take a chance on myself to change things. Right, right.

00:09:56:14 – 00:10:29:01

Yeah. And that’s such a good point. And Sue has said that before. More like with with change comes pain, like in order to go through, you know, some sort of change, there’s usually pain involved in some way, whether it’s the pain that you’re feeling that is going to propel you to make the change or just going through the change in general can be pain painful. And going through it and getting to the other side is just so worth it. It’s hard, but it’s worth it. But in something to about. You know, two stable paychecks coming in and then the health insurance and all of that.

00:10:29:12 – 00:11:04:11

It can be really terrifying. And now we’re down to one stable quote unquote stable because, you know, obviously once you have your business going and it’s in a flow and it’s doing really well, of course, it becomes more stable, but going down to one stable paycheck and maybe losing some health insurance. Or maybe if you don’t have a partner at all and you’re losing all of your stable pay, yeah, all of the insurance and that sort of thing. So I’m curious how you know how that went for you. And you mentioned when we were speaking before that you had a transition plan, and I’m curious if you would, you know, tell us about that and just share how it went for you.

00:11:04:24 – 00:11:51:21

Yeah, so sure. Yeah. So there was a lot of heart to heart conversation with my husband. I grew up from a family of entrepreneurs. Like I said, my dad had his own wedding photography business. My mom had a hair salon for thirty five years and my grandmother had a restaurant, so. And it’s funny because all that didn’t kind of click until after, but for my husband’s like, he’s the risk adverse one. So it was a lot of a lot of conversations about, can we make this work? What can we do? And Oh, God love him because he is like my biggest cheerleader and supporter and honestly, like, really prop me up and gave his like one hundred and 110 percent support of me.

00:11:52:05 – 00:12:23:19

And so we took a look at our finances and realized with some a little bit of effort, a little bit of trimming, we would be able to support our family on his income. And so that’s what we did. But the transition plan was I approached my my employer and I asked for a leave without pay. So I was given a year leave without pay, which meant after the year, I could step back into my job and pick up where I left.

00:12:24:14 – 00:12:58:20

And I have to say that the day I walked in to have that conversation with my manager was the scariest day of my life. I was I was so terrified. I honestly thought everybody, everyone was going to think I was crazy because we’re looking at like I had to, like all intents and purposes, a great job. And I mean, the work didn’t thrill me, but I was quite good at it. I had opportunities to move forward. I had move forward. We both work for the government and I had over the 15 years that I had worked at the government so far.

00:12:59:00 – 00:13:30:06

I had progressed really well. It just like I said, it didn’t give me that was like work life balance and it was never there was never the plan for me. I never wanted that as my career. And you know, looking ahead at the next twenty twenty five years, I was like, I can’t do this for I can’t clock in and out for the next twenty to twenty five years. I I just can’t. And so, yeah, I went in and I laid it out and I said and I was prepared for them to say, no, I was totally prepared for them to say no.

00:13:30:16 – 00:14:08:03

I was prepared for them to look at me like I was crazy and question my choice. And I’ll never forget my manager. She just looked at me and she’s like, Of course, and I had only just come back from that leave. I think I’d only been back from that leave for like less than a year. And she’s like, Of course, like if that’s what if that’s what you’re called to do, if that’s what you you want to do, I’m not going to hold you back. I can’t hold you here. You know, she knew that if she said no and I said I wouldn’t be happy and that eventually I would probably leave or anyway or worse, like I was obviously not giving my 100 percent.

00:14:08:21 – 00:14:44:03

So, yeah, yeah. So I did that and and I knew that going in and asking for that leave without pay, even though that was the safety net that I could step back into my role after a year, that that likely wasn’t going to happen. Like that was my resignation. Like, I knew going in that right as unless the roof fell in. And you know, and like, really, you know? But what’s really ironic, though, is that that year I left on my leave of absence March 2019.

00:14:44:27 – 00:14:53:21

So March 2020, my employer got back to me and they said, OK, like, are you coming back or are you resigning?

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Oh my gosh, that was right when the pandemic started to.

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Yeah, yep, wow. This is about a week before the pandemic started. Yeah, and I had to make the choice. And again, it’s, you know, life has a plan and had that phone call came a week after when the pandemic had started, that choice would have been a thousand percent harder, you know, I mean, it’s hard looking back. We didn’t know in those early days what COVID was going to be, but still, you know, like just. Question, but but yeah, and it’s and again, it’s funny, I didn’t that all that didn’t even dawn on me until a few weeks into the pandemic, and I realized, Oh my God, I actually resigned from my job like a week before it was announced.

00:15:41:17 – 00:16:07:20

So yeah, but like, thank God for it because I wasn’t going back to what you were saying about kids getting sick and having to take leave from work. Like I can’t recall the number of times since the pandemic started. And of course, then we have four kids at home doing school virtual learning. How many times that I’d said, Thank God, I work for myself because I don’t know how my husband I would have ever managed.

00:16:08:06 – 00:16:10:11

Those four kids came with us, both

00:16:10:13 – 00:16:13:11

trying to work a nine to five job virtually from home.

00:16:13:13 – 00:16:40:24

So yeah, I can’t even imagine. I can’t even imagine. I mean, there were days where I would like wine or complain. I’m like, I had to like, look myself in the mirror and be like, Oh my gosh, stop it. Like, there are so many families who don’t have the opportunity to stay at home, or they’re one sick day away from losing their job. And they have very young children that are staying home alone because they don’t have support and daycares are closed. And so I was like, Oh my God, suck it up when I would get like, get frustrated, like.

00:16:41:06 – 00:17:11:24

But I mean, but that struggle is real, too. I mean, you’re you’re completely self-sufficient having to bring in your own income. So there’s a real pressure there when you’ve got kids that can’t go to school or daycare anymore that you need to take care of, but you also have clients that you need to take care of, and you have bills that you need to pay. So that’s a whole different struggle. It’s hard, is that analogy? You know, we’re we’re not all in the same boat, but we’re all we’re all paddling in the storm kind of thing.

00:17:11:26 – 00:17:12:21

I think that’s how it goes.

00:17:12:25 – 00:17:22:03

I mean, it’s definitely a good reminder to not minimize your stress. Yeah. Everyone has their own level of stress or whatever, but it was just kind of a reality check. Oh, yes.

00:17:22:14 – 00:17:26:00

And you know, and that gratitude like. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:17:26:07 – 00:17:35:24

Mm hmm. And it’s funny to you. It’s something that you said about how you built it up in your head, about how your boss was going to take it and how it was just, you know, I

00:17:35:26 – 00:18:04:21

was yeah, I was astonished. Actually, like a lot of people approached me. Like I said, I had quite a good working reputation at work and past managers that I worked with people I really looked up to. It was actually the people that I looked up to the most who I who I thought were going to think I was nuts were the ones who had who would actually take the time to approach me and say, Good for you. You know, good for you. Like, don’t ever doubt yourself. Yeah, that was incredible.

00:18:05:03 – 00:18:40:10

Yeah, that’s very cool. Yeah, that when I was quitting my my, the dean of the school who was my my partner in crime, we worked together for years and I was terrified. I made myself sick thinking about telling her I was going to quit, and I just kept putting it off, putting it off. She pulled me in the office one day and she’s like, I have something to tell you. I was like, What? She’s like, I’m quitting. I was like, Oh, you are, I am, too. And she was like, I was terrified to tell you, Are you serious? So anyways, you know, you can put something up in your head. And then in reality, it might not be what it is, and that happens with so many different things.

00:18:40:12 – 00:19:01:24

Like when people ask the question, Well, you know what? What if this happens when I quit my job? Or what if I don’t get any clients? Or what if, what if? What if? What if? And then people convince themselves not to take that leap or not to take that jump. We create stories in our head that causes anxiety, that it’s likely not even going to happen. It’s like torturing ourselves. So yeah,

00:19:01:26 – 00:19:35:19

we’d have these moments where I would worry about, like living on the street and, you know, and I would have these, I would have these conversations with myself and like, honestly, try to think of the absolute worst case scenario and then think, OK, like if everything completely fell apart. Like, like, say, you know, I lost all my equipment or, you know, my laptop blew up or I don’t have any clients and I can’t make any money doing this. Well, then I go back and find another job. You know, I knew that I had enough inside me that I could I wouldn’t let myself.

00:19:36:21 – 00:20:13:13

Get to such a destitute place like that, I would I could survive, I would survive, I’d find a way. And I think sometimes we think of success as being like a straight a straight shot from A to B, but you know, it’s not. It’s it’s like a wiggly line and you have to navigate going up and down and you have to kind of feel your way through it. It’s not going to be, you know, we see the success stories on TV and in movies and stuff, and it seems like all wrapped up in perfect and they did X, Y and Z, and they got here, and it seems like it takes no time at all.

00:20:13:25 – 00:20:24:13

But in real life, we make all sorts of mistakes and but we we correct and we pivot and we figure it out and we move forward slowly every day. Just keep working towards it.

00:20:24:15 – 00:20:30:12

So yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right. Yeah. OK, so let’s talk about your business. What do you shoot? Mostly.

00:20:30:22 – 00:21:05:14

So right now, I am really I’m really looking towards shooting women specifically. I do headshots, beauty portraits, and I’m just starting to get into boudoir. I call it, I call it a lazy man’s boudoir. I always say I always associate boudoir with, you know, like G-strings and like strappy bras and like. And I was never really attracted to that. I like I think it’s people who are who like that stuff, and I’ve seen some beautiful, beautiful pieces.

00:21:05:16 – 00:21:48:12

But it was actually when I I I learned about Kara Marie and saw her stuff and realized like, there’s a whole kind of another side to boudoir that’s softer and maybe a little more minimal. And, you know, just beautiful kind of honoring the body like, I love that one sheet concepts. So I started looking for ways to shoot that more and incorporate that into my beauty, my beauty portrait sessions where I kind of, you know, if I get the right kind of client, I tease tease it out to see if they be into trying something where, you know, we just do a body suit or we just do a flowy white shirt, buttoned up shirt, you know, just to start getting a little more into.

00:21:49:24 – 00:21:54:13

Showing more of the body and more skin, so. So I’m enjoying that.

00:21:55:06 – 00:22:00:19

OK, so you do a little bit of of what it looks like, mostly in studio or do you do some outside?

00:22:01:04 – 00:22:41:22

So I started us shooting all natural light families, and once I left my job and I started working for myself full time, I actually sat down and did the numbers and I crunched the numbers and I I thought, OK, if I did a family session, one family session every week in Canada, in Ottawa, where we live, we can only really shoot outdoors between June and October. So there was, you know, I could completely I could raise my prices a lot and try to book every weekend between June and October and make a basic salary.

00:22:41:24 – 00:23:13:27

But I was like, I I don’t think I can do that. Like, I just didn’t have it in me to try to push the price to lose your whole summer. And yeah, and to lose my whole summer, right? Because remember, you have to remember the why the why was I more time with my family? So that’s what really led me to thinking. I got a I got to work something out. And so I think I got to start. I got to start learning how to use light, and I want to have a space to shoot. So first I started in my garage and actually the best.

00:23:14:15 – 00:23:46:15

What’s really cool is I started by offering school portraits, so I was offered school portraits in 2019, the fall of 2019, and I got a couple I did like one afternoon out of many sessions and I just shot. I shot some of my garage and some in my house. But then, of course, in 2020, during the pandemic, no one could get school portraits. So all of a sudden it was like a ticket, like it was like people needed this. So it worked out really well. Yeah. So I set up a little shop in my in my garage.

00:23:47:01 – 00:24:20:23

Yeah, and I got all sorts of people coming in and it was great because one I had the base, the client base there because I was moving from families. So I had a whole like. I use my email list and I have a whole I have hundreds of families on my email list sent them out the email that I was doing school portraits in my garage because no one could get them done at their school. And I booked up a bunch of school portraits and it was great because I could play with the light. I could play with the studio lights I could play with posing a little bit.

00:24:21:07 – 00:24:51:29

And kids are. I still love photographing kids, but you know you only have about five minutes if that. So you got to work pretty fast. Yeah. So I just bring them in, and it just gave me, you know, just that familiarity that repeat that muscle memory of how to put the lights together, how to pose you, getting those that posing flow going and making some money. While I while I learned so it was a great way to transition, I did them again this year. But now I have a studio in the house, which was good because it was getting very cold in the garage.

00:24:52:23 – 00:24:57:14

OK, so you have four kids and you have a studio in your house, how do you do that? Yeah.

00:24:58:00 – 00:25:28:16

So when we bought this house, 2010, so we’ve been here for 11 years. So we it’s quite a large house and it has actually has four bedrooms and a bonus room. And so we converted the bonus room. It’s like an extra large space over the garage. It’s got a vaulted ceiling. It has south facing windows. And yeah, I knew when I even when I was doing, you know, just playing around with my camera, shooting my own kids, I used to use the space as their bedroom.

00:25:28:18 – 00:25:59:09

I knew it had a really good light even then. And yeah, and so when I was kind of putting two to two together, I thought, I have the perfect studio space right in our house. So thank goodness for pandemics because I had nothing else to do. So that that was like the perfect opportunity to I didn’t have any clients. I had to be at home. So I just worked at moving everything out and painting and converting the space into a studio. So. Wow. Yeah, I love it too.

00:25:59:11 – 00:26:11:19

It’s tiny, but it’s it’s a total game changer having that space, no matter how tiny, but just having a dedicated space for me to create it was. I’m still in love with having that space.

00:26:11:28 – 00:26:23:06

Yeah, that’s awesome. And you do not need a lot of space. I mean, my my studio that I shot in for, like four years was 300 square feet. Definitely don’t need a lot of space, so that’s awesome. This is pretty

00:26:23:08 – 00:26:37:27

tiny. Like I think it’s 10 by about I think it’s 10 by about 15 feet. So oh yeah. So it’s even smaller. It’s pretty small, but it’s got the higher ceiling, which is really great for moving the lights around. Yeah, it really helps. Yeah.

00:26:38:26 – 00:26:45:07

Now did you have regular clients coming in when you quit your job or were you still building up your client base?

00:26:45:19 – 00:27:15:23

You’re always building your client base. I think it’ll be a while until I. Don’t need any clients, but I have an established name. I definitely had people, you know, looking me up, calling me reaching me. Instagram is actually working really well with me, with family. And so I had I had regular I was probably doing about study two to three shoots so month families, but I was not charging enough to be making a proper like living off of it.

00:27:15:25 – 00:27:19:25

So when I was doing strictly families, I was doing shoot and burn.

00:27:20:12 – 00:27:26:11

OK. Now are you aware you want to be now when it comes to your sales average and how often you’re shooting?

00:27:26:25 – 00:28:02:24

Oh no, no, I’m definitely still working up. We had a long time this year. I opened the studio in May. We weren’t actually able to because of the COVID restrictions. We weren’t actually able to start working until July. So I’ve had like a year. There’s been about a since March to March, which is a year and how many months April, May, June, July. So 16 months of not being able to really work in the home, I could sometimes shoot outside during those 16 months, it was OK to shoot outside of the distance.

00:28:03:08 – 00:28:35:17

So having clients come into the studio to shoot took a long time. Even once the studio was ready, I couldn’t. I couldn’t open my doors yet until July. So, yeah, I’m definitely still working up my business and and transitioning over from families. So like I said, I have quite a few of quite a large client base of families now. And October was probably my busiest months, but it was all families because they were former clients. And, you know, I’m I’m not turning that tap off yet.

00:28:35:19 – 00:29:06:01

I’m slowly again like, you don’t, you know, you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. I worked really hard to build that client base. And even though it’s not really what I want to be shooting anymore, I want to move into the studio work and into beauty portraits and boudoir in that I still need that work. And so, you know, we talk about shooting what you love and I and you know, you have to do that, but you also have to pay the bills. And so I still photograph families, but I don’t market families anymore. It’s not my Instagram.

00:29:06:12 – 00:29:21:23

I still have one little link on my on my website. But I really only I only market directly to them, so if I’m offering family sessions, I email them directly, but I don’t post it out, like on my Facebook or in the public space at all.

00:29:21:29 – 00:29:52:00

Yeah. Nicole, I love that you just said that. It’s like you don’t have to like a murder what you created before in order to build something new. Like, I think Ashleigh said that to me when we were like, she used that as a quote when I interviewed her, Ashleigh Taylor and her full episode. She’s so funny. It’s like, Yes, of course, we want to get to the point where we are only shooting what we love, but we also need to pay the bills and we need to continue to stay relevant and out and, you know, doing shoots and that sort of thing. And.

00:29:52:09 – 00:29:58:01

And it sounds like you did it perfectly. It’s a really nice trend. And yeah, it is a process.

00:29:58:03 – 00:30:28:10

It’s a process. And you know, I’ll continue serving my current clients, doing families. I no longer do newborns in maternity. I was I used to offer that. It’s definitely not a genre I feel I excel at, and it’s not an area where I want to keep investing my time in learning how to do it well. So I’ve decided, OK, so I’m going to step away from that. I never advertise of doing weddings. I’ve done the odd one for a friend, but I don’t take on weddings as a rule. So, yeah, you need that income.

00:30:28:12 – 00:31:06:27

And what was interesting was October. Like I said, it was such a busy month. And I remember kind of complaining like, Oh, I got I got all this business, but it’s not what I want to shoot like, I want to be back in the studio. I want to be doing the hair and makeup and having the fun time and getting, you know, getting super creative. And I’m lugging my camera equipment out on a park with kids and, you know, battling the weather and. But I thought, but this was what I was. This is everything I was working for, like a year before, right? So all that work that I laid down, I planted all those seeds the year before they were finally coming to fruition.

00:31:07:09 – 00:31:29:22

So I couldn’t, like, turn my nose up at it. This was what I had worked for just because I had since decided I was going to move on to something else. I still am really grateful for all that work. My clients might be scratching their heads a little bit because obviously, like, I’m producing all these family images and I don’t share anything of it on, on my, on my Instagram or Facebook. But so far I haven’t had anyone complain, so I don’t worry about it.

00:31:29:24 – 00:32:00:18

But yeah, yeah, that’s funny. When I was when I was transitioning out of weddings, I did a very similar process and I still always felt obligated to share the sneak peeks from my clients wedding. This because I I mean, I guess it’s different when it’s your wedding versus just a family shoot. But I was like, Oh, I got to do it. And I kept getting inquiries because of that. And then finally, I was done. Yeah, but yeah, it is. It’s one of those things that is a balance between keeping clients happy and, you know, making sure it’s what you want to market.

00:32:00:20 – 00:32:02:18

And for sure. And I tell me a little bit.

00:32:02:27 – 00:32:35:12

So I was just going. I was just going to say, like, social media is a marketing tool. I think sometimes we get we get caught up. I mean, I know we share personal details on there sometimes. But sometimes when I feel like a lot of pressure to write like a post or, share something personal, I take a step back and go, It’s a marketing tool. I don’t owe anyone anything on this app like it’s there for me to attract business. I’m writing to attract the clients. I don’t need to share that. Hey, like, my kids were sick, so that’s why I haven’t been here. Like, who cares? You know, like, it’s a marketing tool.

00:32:35:14 – 00:32:48:10

And let’s not forget, like, yes, we we like to pretend it’s social and I do love connecting with others on it. But at the end of the day, it’s just a tool to help me get my message out there about the service I offer.

00:32:48:19 – 00:33:21:14

Yeah, that gosh, that’s such a great reminder of what social media really is truly used for and like when I have friends who are like, Oh, I have to take a social media break and I’m like, I really want to, too know what. Yeah, yeah, I do have someone who will post my regular work for me, which is great, because then if I, if I, if I really do want to take a break, at least I know, you know, they’re still posting regularly happening. But but yeah, you’re right, it is a tool. OK, so let’s talk a little bit, Nicole, about your pricing structure.

00:33:21:16 – 00:33:28:04

And you know, I know you said you’re you still want to increase it a little bit, but talk to me about where it’s at now.

00:33:28:29 – 00:34:04:09

So, yeah, I made a big change this year was I kind of look at my pricing every year, a kind of on the on the fiscal year. So starting in 2020, I went to IPS, so I went to doing in-person sales. I went away from the shoot and burn and I went for all my clients, even my family clients, that I was still servicing. And so I and to make things simple, because I like I’ve learned through Sue’s videos, I think I’ve watched the sales when like three or four times, I watch it every time I readjust my pricing.

00:34:05:06 – 00:34:36:25

Yeah, I wanted to be really simple, so I’d roll off the tongue. So I wanted I kind of. Everything the same, so right now, my session fee is $400 for family beauty head shot. The session fee is $400 dollars, so it includes up to two hours of shooting for the beauty portraits and the headshots. It also covers the hair and makeup artist. But that session fee covers the pre consultation I meet with every client, either usually on the phone or by Zoom with every client before their session.

00:34:37:10 – 00:35:35:28

We talk about logistics and backup plans, all that stuff. With my beauty portraits I go through, we do a whole styling consultation about outfits. I put a Pinterest board together with them or for them. I work with the stylists so they know what we’re what kind of look we’re going for for their shoot. And then, of course, it covers the time and studio and then they purchase so that then that $400 also gives them a $200 credit towards purchasing their prints. And the reason I love that was because I loved using the credit because when I would write up my marketing, like my marketing copy, like the copy for emails and for PDFs, the copy I loved, including a $200 credit print credit in the session fee because whenever I would write up the copy, it was a really kind of elegant way of implying that the prints weren’t included.

00:35:36:00 – 00:36:09:21

Now I always say in this in the prints that’s not included, but if you’re a session fee includes a $200 credit to purchase prints. It’s kind of obvious that the prints aren’t included. So it was the easiest way for me, and then it just it would help it. It allowed me to sell it really well because I’d be like, Well, here’s what everything’s included. And basically half of what you’re paying is already paying for prints. It’s working quite well for families, and that is quite expensive for the market because I have been in families for a couple of years.

00:36:09:23 – 00:36:39:22

I know what the market is and then I would say 90 percent of them are shoot and burn. So 400 up front without any prints is steep for them. But knock on wood like I haven’t anyone complain. And like I said, all these clients are clients I’ve already I’ve already photographed before. They’re past clients, so they know my work and my service, and I can stand by that. And then if people you know, I don’t, if anyone does complain about the price, I always say, Well, shop around. Take a look.

00:36:40:17 – 00:37:14:28

I don’t. I don’t compete on price, so I’m not going to even I’m not going to start arguing with you or trying to justify it. I don’t compete on price. I offer more than price. So yeah, and then so then my packages start at at nine fifty for a package of five prints or six digitals. So I’ve pro-rated the prints and digitals so that you get a couple more digitals per package. And basically, what it is, it’s the same price, but I’ve taken off the price of the actual prints like the the cost of goods sold, basically.

00:37:15:11 – 00:37:29:02

I take that off so you can get a couple extra. So like the first package starts at five prints matted prints for nine fifty or five or six digitals for nine fifty and then it goes up from there.

00:37:29:24 – 00:37:35:18

OK, so then you do digital only, and then they can add on the print packages or the prints.

00:37:35:20 – 00:38:10:08

No, they can pick up digital package or a print package. OK. Yeah. Gotcha. It’s just the pricing. The packages start like they’re like my print packages. The first package starts at five fifty for five matted prints or six digitals, and they go up to nine hundred for the second, which is 10 prints or 15 digitals. And then the top my biggest package is 1200, which is 20 prints in a folio box or 30 digitals, which they also get in black and white

00:38:10:25 – 00:38:14:28

Wait though a Nicole. They also get the $200 credit, though, right? Yes.

00:38:15:00 – 00:38:16:05

So that’s what’s yeah.

00:38:16:07 – 00:38:19:24

So that’s oh, man. So that’s where your lowest package is.

00:38:19:26 – 00:38:56:26

Like that? Yeah. If you take that two hundred off, yeah, that’s 350. And then in a beauty, which is where I’m really trying to grow my business and the beauty portraits and headshots, I have to take off the price of my artist, which is about 150 to two hundred. So I’m not making anything. So when I get to that, I’m not making anything on the session. So right now, I’m looking at increasing the session fee because I’m not selling a lot of I’m getting people in the door, but I’m not selling a lot and sort of in terms of prints or digital’s right now, my clients are kind of half and half.

00:38:56:29 – 00:39:27:04

Some of them are doing. I’m trying to push the prints, but they’re really still on the whole digital mindset, which, you know, I’ve shot enough to know that most people don’t ever print their digital. So, you know, so it, you know, I really try to encourage my clients to consider prints. And the way I do that, too is any print they buy. They also get the digital. So if they are like, Yeah, but I I really, you know, there’s always the worry that they’ll lose it.

00:39:28:14 – 00:39:33:14

So you’ll always have the digital. So you know, you get the print, but you’ll have the digital.

00:39:34:01 – 00:39:54:10

I definitely want to encourage you to raise that because I mean, for the smallest package you’re basically working for for nothing. Yeah, I mean, you did not quit your job to spend time with your family and you know, and then take all this time away from your family and you know your friends in your life or whatever to whom work for nothing. Yeah. So I definitely want to encourage you to get those prices up.

00:39:54:14 – 00:40:31:24

Yeah, absolutely. I again, coming up to my The New Year, I’ll be increasing my prices again and my clients know that I increase them every year and I tell. So I kind of do it like a year end, like, Hey, my prices are going to be going up if you want to book now to schedule your shoot in in the new year. You know, you can get on in the old, you know, the lower pricing. And again, it’s just a nice way to like one kind of I hate when someone comes to me saying December and they’re like, I really think I’d like to get my my, my pictures taken and I send them the pricing.

00:40:31:26 – 00:41:03:23

And then it’s only a matter of a few weeks later they come back, OK, OK, I’m ready to book, and I’m like, Oh, the price has gone up, and I know I have the right to do that. But this way one, I kind of gets them. It kind of pushes them to book. And it also gets a bunch of dates in my calendar going into the new year, which really makes me feel good because I’m like, OK, I’m getting into this because I find my slowest period is January to May. And so it’s nice to know, OK, I’ve got I’ve got bookings like, I’m good. Even the pricing of the prints will go up.

00:41:03:28 – 00:41:24:07

So even though they book the session at a lower fee, that they’re going to still pay the higher print prices because they don’t obviously buy the prints until the session is done and they they see the the images so. Right, right? Yeah. But yeah, definitely. I agree. I have to I have to raise my prices, have every intention to do that.

00:41:25:00 – 00:41:46:11

Yeah, yeah, I hope you do. And and there is a strategy to that you could use is when you do raise your prices, if someone an old client comes, you know, previous client comes back, you could just offer a gift voucher, you know, or not give voucher or something towards the new pricing. You know, there’s that there’s that route as well that you can take. But I mean, there’s going to be a lot of new clients in your future, too, who had no idea what your previous pricing is. Absolutely.

00:41:46:13 – 00:42:19:29

So, yeah, I I definitely recognize that my old clients are not my beauty portrait clients. So in some ways, I’m kind of starting over again in terms of building a client base of beauty portraits, even headshots and and I tried to cross, promote like I. I will send information to my family clients about packages and things I’m offering in terms of headshots. But it’s just a matter of how they found me and they know me as a family photographer. So they don’t they don’t consider, you know, they don’t consider me.

00:42:20:01 – 00:42:40:17

So I try to say friend of mine. But I do know it’s a different client, so I don’t try to push it if they’re not going to. If my family clients are going to can be converted to beauty portrait clients like, I can’t blame them there, you know, they got on board with that very different with a very different service in mind. So that’s perfectly I have to find new clients for my beauty portrait business.

00:42:41:04 – 00:42:50:04

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And then, you know, what are your goals? What are you working towards? How many times you want to shoot per month? You know what? What works for you?

00:42:50:23 – 00:43:21:02

So I would love to shoot probably four to six sessions a month. Six is probably pushing it. I’d love it if I had a solid shoot every week. And I would like to see like a $2500 average sale, so I’m I’m still ways from that. I totally I totally recognize that I have a ways to go, but I also recognize that I only just moved over to in-person sales at the beginning of this year. So the idea of even saying that a session was $400 and it didn’t include the prints like I would break out into a sweat.

00:43:21:07 – 00:43:50:18

It’s strange to say that because, you know, I’m coming from a die hard shoot and burn and dealing with clients who are all used to shooting burns. So having to, I had to spell that out for people. So, yeah, so I mean, I know I have a long way to go, but I’ve also come a long way. And it’s just I have to take the steps and I will. I definitely will be increasing my prices. So yeah, but right now I’m in the process of deciding by how much do I just take the leap or do I kind of do an incremental increase?

00:43:51:09 – 00:44:25:26

Right, right. Well, you know, I have to say I did the leap and I definitely took the leap and it was scary. And I used gift vouchers because it freaked me out big time. I used gift vouchers and gave away the session fee. So they came in at no, yeah, no obligation. And that worked really well for me. And you know, some people do. They just kind of move up slowly. But one thing, gosh, one thing that I think that works so well is to really to make that leap. But then again, going back to the gift vouchers, you can use higher increments if it freaks you out.

00:44:26:07 – 00:44:57:21

Use a $500 gift voucher, you know, bump your top package up to twenty four hundred or you said you want your average to be five to twenty seven hundred and then give out of five hundred six hundred dollar gift voucher. It just it’s like another thing that you could do, though, if this makes you more comfortable that I think some people do. As every three shoots you book at your current pricing raise at $100, you raise it $200, whatever. As long as you’re going on an upward trajectory. I will say, though, it is much easier to start at a higher price.

00:44:57:23 – 00:45:07:17

And given all those factors because you never have to, you know, someone who comes, you said, Well, my friend only paid x y z. Yes. So, you know, not that that happens very often.

00:45:07:19 – 00:45:43:17

Again, you know. Yeah, plus I do. Once I it took me a long time to get my PDFs together like, you know, when I did the 90 day startup and when I got to the PDF, lessons I like almost stopped dead. It took I don’t know why I actually love doing digital projects like projects I love designing. You know, I love designing and that sort of thing. And I use Canva a lot for all my media posts and that sort of stuff. And I actually use Canva to develop my PDF, which was to me and being the easiest way to do it.

00:45:44:07 – 00:46:17:28

So, yeah, for me, like I felt I had a confidence once I kind of had those numbers and I had the memorized. Even though you had I, you still had to ask me. But as long as have the session feel memorized, so for me, I think I need to feel really confident with those numbers so that they don’t have a power over me anymore. And I don’t want to be in a situation where someone comes to me and I’m kind of between pricing and I’m like in and then I’m always going to give them lower pricing. So for me, I have to say, OK, this is the cut off.

00:46:18:08 – 00:46:33:21

This is what it’s going to be. And just get used to saying that, you know, and that’s it. And then move, you know? So I I don’t have to second guess myself and it I can take the emotion out of out of the price because it’s just no, it’s just

00:46:34:08 – 00:46:48:06

yeah, yeah. So that’s exactly right. Take the emotion right out of it. It is what it is. You know, high end, high end retailers are not, you know, feeling emotional because they didn’t. Someone walked out and didn’t buy a pair of shoes or whatever, because the price is the price.

00:46:48:22 – 00:46:57:19

And you know, what I found so amazing was the fact that and I think this came up in some of Sue’s talks that she’s done. People forget that they paid the session fee,

00:46:59:13 – 00:47:31:07

though, right? Actually, a lot of the time they forget they have this $200 credit. Like a lot of the time, I was going to remind them that they had the $200 credit. Oh, yeah, they forgot they even have it. So like the money that they paid, like three or four weeks ago, they completely forget. So I think that’s a really important thing for people who are new to raising their prices and new to doing in-person sales is that you can basically dissociate your your session fee with your package pricing because your clients do. They do not, they don’t remember.

00:47:31:15 – 00:47:45:10

They’re not adding in their head going, Oh, I’ve already spent four hundred dollars and now I have to spend nine hundred more dollars. They’re not doing that like I know for a fact their not. So it’s interesting. That was a big shock for me, but a really good thing to know that they forget.

00:47:45:26 – 00:48:17:10

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I had a client recently thanking me and I’m thinking what she’s thanking me for. And then I had it’s funny because she I had given her a $100 voucher. As a as a return client, for some reason, I gave one hundred. I’m trying to remember it was so long ago. For some reason, I gave a $100 gift voucher and she forgot about it, and I applied it as a discount on her invoice. And she thought I was like, being super nice and thinking like, actually, I gave this year while ago. You know what? OK, if you want to think I’m being really nice, that’s

00:48:17:12 – 00:48:49:04

a really interesting that brings a brings up an interesting question for me. Know Nikki Do you track who you give vouchers to? No. Because I mean, I would forget and I wouldn’t remember. Yeah, I have this. I have. I’ve made them on little business cards. It’s like the size of a business card and I pop them in birthday cards. And any time I know a client’s referred me that resulted in a sale, I send them a thank you and I pop a couple of vouchers and so I give them away all the time. I don’t keep track. I mean, I don’t think anyone’s out there reproducing my gift voucher.

00:48:50:03 – 00:49:07:15

Yeah, in this case, it was through email and OK. So whenever I photograph someone before I always go back to our email threads and just read. OK. Just to freshen up my memory of how they like to be photographed, you know, just anything that we talked about via email and it was in there, which is what I remembered. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:49:07:19 – 00:49:15:26

Well, no. It just it was a bit of a relief for me because I’m like, I’m not tracking any of I’m still handing them out like candy to people track.

00:49:16:05 – 00:49:19:16

I am not that organized. No, that organized.

00:49:21:06 – 00:49:37:27

Well, thanks for chatting with me about all of this, Nicole. I really appreciate it. You get you have some really, really great insight and I can tell you just have soaked in so much education and you’re just like doing the work. And yeah, it’s awesome. I’m excited for you, and I really do hope you raise your prices. I will work is great. You deserve

00:49:37:29 – 00:49:40:12

You can hold me to it and you can check in on me later.

00:49:40:14 – 00:49:42:06

I definitely have. I will.

00:49:44:08 – 00:50:19:00

But yeah, you know, I yeah, sorry. I was just going to kind of give a little plug to sue because having the system, having all the access to all that, the resources and the information and the Facebook group, there’s so much value there. Like we all have those people in our lives that kind of question what we’re doing. You know, when I tell, I haven’t even worked with business coaches and I’ve told them I’m offering a luxury service, this is what I’m going to charge. And they’re like, they’re they’re like, really like and I’m like, Look, it works like I have a whole.

00:50:19:16 – 00:50:23:24

There’s hundreds of people that can back me up on the fact that I can do this. It works.

00:50:25:10 – 00:50:44:28

I don’t. I don’t know if I could have done any of this without knowing that there’s a proven system out there and a lot of other people have done it and succeeded at it. And it just, you know, some days that’s what I need to remind myself to kind of keep going and keep pushing myself. So that’s pretty cool. Yeah, it’s amazing.

00:50:45:03 – 00:50:56:28

Yeah, awesome. Well, I do have a couple more questions for you that I always ask at the end of each episode. Absolutely. Yeah. The first question is what is something you can’t live without when you’re doing a photo shoot?

00:50:58:07 – 00:51:29:26

So I’m a huge fan of the podcast, so I know these questions well, and so I did have some time to think about it. And like a lot of other people, obviously I have music. I have a fan. My artists assist me with the shoot. But one thing I started using in my shoots that I find has been a game changer for me is I start every shoot off with some deep breathing with my client. Oh, nice. Yeah. So we just sit together and we just, you know, five or five or six deep breaths.

00:51:30:16 – 00:52:00:20

But as I find there’s a lot of excitement going on and they just saw themselves after they got their hair makeup done and they’re all excited. And I just find that time helps ground me, but also helps ground them. I start off just by doing it for my own self to help me center myself and not get too overwhelmed before the session started. But I found it really helps them too, because I want them to be present in their body during the session.

00:52:00:22 – 00:52:09:19

So, yeah, I mean, it can feel a little weird at first when we first started doing it, but I’ve done it several times now and feel it feels a little easier every time.

00:52:10:14 – 00:52:18:00

Yeah, that’s awesome. I love that. I love deep breathing. Very cool. Number two, how do you spend your time when you aren’t working?

00:52:18:15 – 00:52:33:21

I read, I do read outside of like caring for my kids. Obviously, there’s a lot of dance practices and ring out practices to drive children to. I do love reading so fiction. Yeah, that’s my get my little getaway.

00:52:34:07 – 00:52:43:29

God, I love reading so much. I just do not read as much as I should any more. I listen. I listen to books, but ever since I started my business, I swear I just do not read as much anymore.

00:52:44:07 – 00:53:21:25

Yeah, that’s it’s like my little. I don’t want to say it’s my not guilty pleasure. I don’t want to call it a guilty pleasure, but I started this year. I instituted Sundays off. So on Sundays, I don’t the odd time I may have to. Book a shoot if there’s been a rain date, if I’m doing an outdoor session, but otherwise Sundays, I don’t look at my phone, I don’t book anything. I plan my work so that nothing has to be. Nothing’s expected from me on Sunday, and that’s the time I cuddle up on the couch and I have some me time and I read and I spend time with my kids and my husband because he gets some time sometimes.

00:53:23:10 – 00:53:25:13

But yeah, very cool.

00:53:25:28 – 00:53:29:20

And number three, what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:53:30:20 – 00:54:08:12

So I love quotes. I have several that I’ve collected over the years, but the most recent one that I’ve found that I absolutely love is you can’t get it wrong. And it’s something I repeat to myself a lot because, you know, the whole process is as it’s meant to be. And so even if you completely mess it all up, there’s going to be something that you’re going to gain out of that. So you can’t get it wrong. And sometimes that’s all I need to just repeat to myself to allow myself to just keep going forward and not get stuck in analysis paralysis.

00:54:08:14 – 00:54:26:14

Or second, guess my decisions. Every decision I made was the right one at the time. So I don’t, I said funny because I have them everywhere. I have a really great quote on my email, but I don’t have that one ever anywhere. But I say it to myself a lot. So, yeah, I love it. Yeah.

00:54:26:28 – 00:54:28:13

Simple but impactful.

00:54:28:15 – 00:54:34:01

Yeah, that’s that’s what this old mom brain. I can’t have anything to complicate it. Don’t stick.

00:54:35:22 – 00:54:40:04

All right. And last question is, what would you tell people who are just getting started?

00:54:41:06 – 00:55:13:14

You know, little by little, you’ll go far. You have to make the first step, and the only one that needs to believe in you is you. We all want the support of our families and friends, but there’s going to be a time where you’re going to need to make decisions that you know aren’t going to be what everyone else thinks you should do. And it’s all you, baby, you got to. You got to own it and you got to and you got to do it for you because you answer to yourself at the end of the day and it’s your business.

00:55:13:16 – 00:55:28:08

So yeah, that’s probably. That’s probably the the best thing I can think of is don’t do it for anyone else, just do it for you and you’ll you’ll be fine. You’ll do it and you’ll be great as wherever you end up, wherever you land.

00:55:28:25 – 00:55:32:13

Yeah, exactly. Very cool. And where can people find you online, Nicole?

00:55:33:01 – 00:55:49:26

Yeah. So I’m on Instagram at Nicole Underscore Rose underscore photography, and that’s Nicole N I C O L E and on my web page. I guess this would be WWW Dot Nicole Rose Photography Dot C.A..

00:55:50:13 – 00:55:59:20

Very cool. Awesome. Well, thank you again. And yeah, I can’t wait to hear our follow up interview a year from now. And yes, please do. Very good.

00:55:59:22 – 00:56:12:06

Yes. Thank you so much, NiKki. It’s a real privilege. I really, really appreciate your time, and the podcast is awesome, by the way. Like, I don’t know if I mentioned, but yeah, I listen to it almost every day when I walk my dog, so

00:56:13:05 – 00:56:17:19

I’m so glad about that. Very cool. All right. You take care. We’ll talk soon.

00:56:17:24 – 00:56:19:01

OK? Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.