FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors. 

00:00:01:04 – 00:00:35:19

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one, navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

Hey, there! This week, your clubhouse hosts Kevin and Ashleigh interviewed Kirsten White, and they talked to her specifically about the campaigns that she does.

00:00:35:27 – 00:00:50:21

Most recently, she launched a campaign around photographing couples, and Kirsten just has so much great insight into how to do campaigns, what has worked for her. She just shares it all, and it’s such a great interview. OK, let’s get started with Kevin Ashleigh and Kirsten White.

00:00:51:13 – 00:01:21:06

Welcome everyone to the Portrait System podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you are not familiar with the portrait system, we are a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce Education. Nikki Closser hosts our Monday episode, and Ashleigh and I co-hosted our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific, and our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for the portrait system.

Ashleigh, how are you doing today?

00:01:21:22 – 00:01:32:09

I’m awesome, Kevin, and I’m so excited to welcome our guest, Kirsten White. She’s been a friend of mine in the group for a while now, and I’m so excited to have her on. So welcome, Kristen.

00:01:32:26 – 00:01:35:06

Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here.

00:01:35:22 – 00:02:07:21

So campaigns are very popular in our community right now, and we’ve had guests on with us to discuss their 40 over 40 and there are 50 or 50 campaigns. But after hearing you were launching a new campaign that is based around couples, we thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss the thought process and the strategy that goes into developing a new campaign and how to make it successful. But before we hop into that, though, let’s discuss your 50 or 50 campaign for a bit.

00:02:08:03 – 00:02:13:26

And why did you decide to do a 50 over 50 campaign as your first project?

00:02:15:06 – 00:02:44:14

Well, I decided to do that first because I was turning 50. So knowing how it feels to kind of look ahead and think, Oh my god, 50, you seemed like such an old number. But as you get here and you realize, look, I don’t feel 50, I don’t feel old and I don’t look old, so I really want to celebrate myself, actually celebrate it with a shoot with Ashleigh out in Phoenix. That was such a good time

00:02:47:09 – 00:03:06:10

and just the way I felt and just, you know, being celebrated, celebrating myself. It’s a feeling that I think every woman should have, and particularly the way ageism is in our our society. I just really wanted to focus on this age group as I could truly relate to how they were feeling.

00:03:07:03 – 00:03:42:21

Do you think it’s important to like be able to have a personal tie in or relate in a specific way to whatever the topic of your campaign is like, for example? I’m not yet 50, but I did a 50 over 50 campaign and I still had a lot of fun with it. You know, even though it’s like not, it’s personal to me in a different way, in an inspiring way. But it’s not personal to me in the sense that like, I’m over 50. So I’m just wondering, like how much of a personal connection do you think it is important when creating a campaign?

00:03:43:27 – 00:04:18:00

I do think it is important. I don’t think that it will be an unsuccessful campaign if you’re not living it as long as you can relate. And in a way, I’m sure you can. I’m sure you’ve got, you know, your mother, your aunts, you know, people that that are close to you, that are in that age group. So you have a starting point, you do kind of get it. An added benefit is when you get there, you’ll understand a little bit more of the nuance, and I think that the clients will automatically kind of feel an automatic or quicker connection.

00:04:18:09 – 00:04:38:06

So I’m not going to say that you can’t connect. Obviously, you can, and you do a fabulous job. You made me feel like a queen. So, yeah, so you can definitely do it. I just think maybe it might be a quicker connection, like an automatic, like, OK, you know, we’re in the same boat, but it’s definitely not something that that can’t be forged.

00:04:38:26 – 00:05:13:07

Yeah. The reason I ask was just because I believe we’ve even had people on this clubhouse that chose to do different campaigns specifically saying, like, Well, I’m too young to do a 50 over 50 campaign, you know, and I just always think that you obviously want to have a personal, like you said, passion toward the project, but I don’t think like, you know, anyone is too young or too old to pick like a certain topic, but yeah, if you don’t feel like for me, I feel very inspired by women over 50.

00:05:13:17 – 00:05:25:21

I feel like I want to showcase how awesome it is to get older as a way for myself to feel good about getting older because, you know, time is flying by pretty quickly.

00:05:25:23 – 00:05:30:24

I’m already getting close to 40 years closer than I thought it would happen.

00:05:32:19 – 00:06:04:00

So I am. So you brought out a youthful side of me and in that you are younger and I think everyone should be photographed by a variety of photographers. Yeah, doing that with my branding and I enjoy it because everyone sees something different in you. You know, things are very layered. There’s a lot to us. So, you know, one point of view, you know, is great, but several point of views. There’s a benefit to all of it.

00:06:04:02 – 00:06:08:04

And I know, like you brought out my playful side. We had a great time.

00:06:09:12 – 00:06:40:21

Yeah, that’s I think that’s a good point to you. Just for the community to remember, too, that like we’re not in competition with each other because we all see people so differently. And you can really see that at like events like the portrait masters shoot out where you have, you know, the same sets in the same models in the same outfit being photographed by tends to be, you know, a lot of people, basically. But the photos always turn out so different because each photographer is different. So I really love that you bring that point up as

00:06:40:23 – 00:07:13:21

well that I love watching, you know, the photos that came from the shoot out and go into the model and looking at their tagged photos and just seeing that same model, like you said, photographs so many different ways with the same set up, but just the eye is different. So anyone that’s nervous about doing a campaign and thinking that they can’t do it, you know, because maybe they’re a male photographer and they want to do a 40 or 40 or 50 over 50. You know, you can do that too, because you’re going to see that woman a totally different way. And for her to see herself through your eyes is very valuable.

00:07:14:23 – 00:07:24:06

I actually appreciate you saying that because as a man in my mid-thirties, I question whether do I have

00:07:25:28 – 00:08:00:15

Am I able to market towards a 50 plus demographic that is a, you know, woman based? And will I be viewed differently in the eyes of that clientele? And would they want to, you know, you know, focus on on the whole, we’re completely different. But as you said, with it being the idea of like focusing on, say, my mother or an older person in my life that by going off of that, that I could potentially market through that way.

00:08:01:09 – 00:08:32:05

Right. In your consultation, you’ll you’ll find ways to connect with that person and, you know, see what they’re looking for. They may not want to be matronly in their photos, so they, you know, they’ll say, you remind me of my grandmother or me or something like that. You know, they they they want to. We want to feel like ourselves again. Of course, you know, by this age, we’ve, you know, we’ve been married. Maybe we we raised children, maybe. And you know, you kind of lose yourself in that.

00:08:32:07 – 00:08:55:19

So just the beauty of of seeing that woman as a woman and look at them like maybe an actress that you admire, that’s in that age group that is still out there. You know, a lot of the famous ones are turning 50. You know, I would probably go at that angle, maybe more so than your mom. Gotcha bring out the woman in her. Gotcha.

00:08:55:29 – 00:09:22:19

Because like I’ve even seen as of today, I believe there was a post on the Facebook group wondering men, how many of you are out there that are creating campaigns based off of 40 or 40 or 50 or 50 and how to be successful? And I’m seeing a bunch of guys in there saying, Well, I’m interested in this too. I’m interested to on how to create that campaign for myself.

00:09:23:00 – 00:09:54:23

So I think that they could definitely be extremely successful with it, you know, because again, you know, it’s human interaction. You know, as you sit back and you watch, you observe people and you just see the psychology of women of that of this age group. I love it. 50S, those are pretty much my my base of my business women, I’d say 45 to 60. Most of them in this somewhere in the 50s. It’s a great time they’re starting to.

00:09:55:00 – 00:10:10:07

Their kids are either in college or graduating college. They’ve reached milestones in their careers. So, you know, there’s lot more disposable income. But this age group, so that’s your point. Yeah, it’s a profitable campaign to do.

00:10:12:19 – 00:10:28:22

Since you’re talking about like the nitty gritty of how to like do a campaign, let’s get into that. So how did you fill the seats? Like, how did you feel 50 spots in your campaign? Was it through Facebook ads? Was it through word of mouth? A combination? What was your process like?

00:10:28:29 – 00:11:11:21

A combination, definitely a combination on Facebook ads help. Google ads have been even better, but word of mouth hands down is the best that my business is very much referral based and repeat clients. So I had a lot of clients. I started marketing to them first through email marketing and my personal Facebook page, as opposed to my profession, my business page. Just mentioning it. And, you know, sometimes I would repost, like, share a post from my business page to my personal page so more people would see it and people were like, Oh, what is this? What is this? And it just took off from there.

00:11:11:29 – 00:11:18:23

I think I’m going to always do this project and I’ll just have volumes and volume one, two, three, four, five, etc. That’s

00:11:18:25 – 00:11:35:18

what I was going to ask. If it was something that was so successful, you would repeat it again because I mean, bringing on 50 clients in a year, that could be, you know, for some photographers, that’s like who are just starting out or having trouble getting bums on seats. That’s like, Oh my God, that’s what a shooting in a year, you know, so.

00:11:36:15 – 00:11:54:15

Mm-Hmm. I focused on I call my fabulous 50s because I didn’t want to be tied to a number. I didn’t feel rushed with having to do 50 or what if I do 40? Is it not successful? You know, because I didn’t get to 50? Because I do do other, you know, other genres. But

00:11:56:08 – 00:12:30:06

I found that giving myself that latitude to me easily got 50, but I didn’t feel that pressure. So starting you may you may want to come at it, at it, from another angle where you’re not putting a number on it. I’ve seen some people really like kill themselves trying to get this amount of people in. I think I saw one was like 40 and 40 days or something is like, Oh oh, why would you be able to do this, you know? But they did it, and it’s fabulous. But I, you know, for me, that’s that’s just too much pressure, you know, Ashleigh knows me a little better.

00:12:30:13 – 00:12:31:19

I’m very laid back

00:12:33:27 – 00:12:46:16

person. I want to have fun doing what I love to do. I want everyone, all my clients, to have fun. I don’t want them to feel rushed in any way. So for me personally, this was was better not to put a number on it.

00:12:47:13 – 00:12:57:16

Well, oh sorry, Kevin. I was just going say, even though we’re not talking about numbers of like, how many people you photograph, can you put a number on? Like what was your average sale from a client from this project?

00:12:58:08 – 00:13:00:25

I’m like, Sue always says the middle package.

00:13:02:03 – 00:13:03:07

So what is that for you?

00:13:03:15 – 00:13:04:11

Twenty four hundred.

00:13:04:19 – 00:13:39:27

So even so, let’s actually work backwards for a second because I really want people in the audience to understand like how the pricing and promotion of this works. I know when I like run mine, it’s a special rate that includes one image. Normally my minimum order is 900, but it’s 300 for this project. So it’s like obviously positioned as like a real good deal. Get in there, you know? But I know a lot of people have a lot of fear like, well, what if they just take the one image and then you’re at break even or worse out money and everything single

00:13:39:29 – 00:13:41:11

50 of the 50

00:13:41:13 – 00:13:56:10

people do that and then you’re like, screwed, which is not my experience at all, obviously, but I think that’s a real fear. It’s a real fear, right? So like, can you walk through how you price it and how you get that 2400 average sale?

00:13:56:29 – 00:14:30:01

And the way I priced them originally, my normal session fee is three seventy five and I was doing it for two seventy five and including a print, a matted print. I then changed it after a while to the the regular session fee and adding in the print because with a normal session, they don’t get anything with it. Everything they buy is extra. The session fee is just to cover the session. So that’s where I started and it seems to work out well.

00:14:31:08 – 00:14:40:23

OK, so you were saying you have that starting price, but people are mostly going for your middle package. So how do you how are you making that happen?

00:14:41:13 – 00:15:06:12

Well, I do a reveal it’s it’s still on Zoom. I’m loving doing reveals on Zoom, and I do that like I would do with it with any client and they just fall in love. The same way I fell in love with your portraits of me. I fell in love with the portraits of them and you know, they pick. There are one that will be, you know, their giveaway with for being in the project, and we just add that on to their order.

00:15:08:24 – 00:15:28:09

So with the reveals that you’re doing as you say, you’re doing them over Zoom. I’ve heard of people being worried about like, what if they screenshot it? It’s very similar to how why we say, don’t do online galleries. Is there is that even a worry to you? I’m assuming. Probably not. But now does that ever in your mind?

00:15:28:17 – 00:15:44:08

I don’t worry about that. I mean, there are so many things that people can do. I mean, they’re so crafty these days, and you know, you just can’t you kind of contingencies a contingency plan for everything. I just pray they don’t.

00:15:45:25 – 00:16:12:25

I haven’t seen an issue like I haven’t. I haven’t seen people do that. I did have one where I like. Normally, I don’t post anything that hasn’t been purchased, but there is one shot that I just loved. The woman didn’t. She didn’t buy it, but I posted it and I have everything from a post on Instagram and it drives it to Facebook. Well, she downloaded it on Facebook. And then next thing I knew it was a profile picture and I was like, Oh.

00:16:15:20 – 00:16:22:08

So that did happen to me once, and I was like, You know? All right. Let me just consider that I just bless someone

00:16:24:04 – 00:16:35:08

that marketing costs, right? Yeah, that’s just a marketing cost, I mean. You know, hey, she’s she’s tagged me and everything else that people know. I shot it. But you know, it did kind of like …errr.

00:16:36:04 – 00:17:08:01

I think, yeah. And I think too like going back to the point of like screen on Zoom and stuff like ultimately, at the end of the day, it’s what energy are you bringing to it? Are you bringing that energy that people are going to steal from you, that people are going to take advantage of you, that people aren’t going to pay you or follow through on their invoices? Or are you bringing like we had a great connection? I served them. We’re an equal exchange and this person is going to like, honor me because that’s always the energy that like, yeah, like, that’s always the energy that I come from.

00:17:08:10 – 00:17:38:29

I love that you brought that up because that’s one of the things I love so much about this project. It’s brought me so many wonderful people. And, you know, I come from that place of of serving and and I want them to be happy. I want to surprise and delight. I want them to love their session. We go through so much in my process, you know, from the consultation calls to the the the meetings about what are they going to wear, you know, and helping them pick their wardrobe.

00:17:39:01 – 00:18:12:12

I do a Pinterest board with them as inspiration of what they like. I have a questionnaire that that comes right after they book. I do a questionnaire and it gets pretty in-depth. You know, if the questions are kind of layered, so I can really kind of get into them and where they are, the woman they want to see in their photos, and it sparks a lot of beautiful conversations. So by the time we get to the shoot, we are, we’re pretty connected. We’ve talked, we text, we, you know, we face time, we’re pretty connected. So I really don’t worry about them mistreating me in any way.

00:18:12:24 – 00:18:16:20

Yeah, that one thing happened. But you know, hey, you know, one out of.

00:18:18:12 – 00:18:18:27

Yeah,

00:18:20:22 – 00:18:53:06

it’s OK. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s bound to happen that every once in a while we have a client that, for whatever reason, could be a multitude of things is not the ideal client or doesn’t treat us the right way. But I really feel like, you know, also look at your own behavior, like when someone gives you really good service, do you want to screw them over? Or do you want to like honor them and pay them fully? And are you like valuing them? Because I also think it’s so much a reflection of like where we are with our internal energy towards paying others for how we receive for how we give like.

00:18:53:14 – 00:19:07:18

So just like Sue always talks about in her videos and her money talks in herself, value talks like if we come from that good energy like, we’re probably going to be treated really well because we’re treating others and it’s just like an endless cycle.

00:19:07:27 – 00:19:11:01

Yeah, it definitely comes back to you. I believe that a thousand percent.

00:19:11:10 – 00:19:12:12

Mm hmm. Fantastic point.

00:19:13:16 – 00:19:44:07

And on top of that, the women have referred me so much. I mean, they may not fit for the project, but they referred me branding clients, you know, just straight up headshot clients. One got me into like a whole health system where I take, you know, I take images of all of the doctors, all the providers and this big health system in my area. So it’s just it’s a Win-Win all around. I’ve met and connected with so many beautiful people.

00:19:44:24 – 00:20:17:23

Yeah, that’s a good point to you. It’s about opening doors and relationships, and sometimes someone isn’t, you know, the highest paying client. But they open a lot of doors for us and in return give us a lot of connections that lead to clients or they refer friends of theirs that become high paying clients. So like a campaign like this, your rate is really great for just making your network bigger and making your network bigger with people who value what you do and have experienced what you do, so they can really speak from experience about working with you.

00:20:18:02 – 00:20:47:16

Exactly. Exactly. So many times, especially when you’re really into the art of photography like you love this craft and literally would do it for free if the world worked like that, you know? Yeah, and you just love it. A lot of times photographers like that we’re the best kept secret, and we lack visibility. These campaigns give you the visibility that you need where people know about you. They just haven’t seen you. You know, once they see it, they love it and they want to share it, and it just grows from there.

00:20:47:28 – 00:21:10:01

I love that. Well, I want to kind of pivot and just go into your new campaign because you have I feel like, you know, so many people have talked about 40, over 40 and 50, over 50, and it’s great. But like, there are these people who don’t, you know, relate to that concept, and I think they feel like, Well, then what can I do? Like, what’s going to be successful?

00:21:12:21 – 00:21:18:07

So I know you have a new campaign that you’re launching, and I want you to tell us all about it. OK?

00:21:18:09 – 00:21:27:21

The new campaign is the love project. And that was actually inspired by clients with the fabulous 50s project and that

00:21:29:11 – 00:22:03:27

just realizing, you know, when you photograph a woman, you really are in with the whole family. When their husbands need a headshot for work, they’re going to call you. You know, when their kids need photographs for it, for high school, they get their senior high school photos, they’re going to call you. And same for their family photos. This time of year, everyone needs family photos for the holidays. So you just become their go to photographer, which I really enjoy being. And in my family sessions, I’ve been focusing a lot more on the couple.

00:22:04:07 – 00:22:38:08

You know, I do the group and then I do everyone solo. And then I, I put the kids together. I put the kids together with mom, together with dad, and then I do the couple. And I started spending a little bit more time with the couple and it was just really beautiful. You know, just watching them connect, you know, they kind of, you know, start off, you know, and then they’re just kind of helping each other, you know, primped for the camera. And you know, I have a big TV in my lounge. So on Sundays with, you know, football, the guys watching football, but they come in and like, Oh, you know, you look great.

00:22:38:10 – 00:23:12:10

And so then they start, you know, just interacting more and then almost flirting with each other more. And I’m catching this show on camera and they’re loving it. And they’ve confided like, you know, we really haven’t had pictures of professional pictures together since our wedding. Hmm. You know, some have eloped and know their engagement photos were the only professional photos that they had. So there is a need, you know, they they don’t. A lot of people don’t sit for professional photos with their spouse or their significant other.

00:23:12:22 – 00:23:23:16

And then with the pandemic, it really came out a lot, like a lot of couples had a hard time with the pandemic and being quarantined and some are working remotely.

00:23:25:15 – 00:23:36:25

The dynamics of relationships are changing, and it can be kind of difficult for some, you know, kind of like hairdressers. I don’t know about you? But don’t you kind of become a confidante sometimes with your clients?

00:23:38:15 – 00:23:39:12

They tell you everything.

00:23:41:07 – 00:24:16:11

And and it is it’s an adjustment. Like, maybe they’ve always worked from home and now their spouse is working for a home and they feel like they’re their space is being invaded. You know, they’re kind of growing apart or they realize they’re grown apart and through a photo shoot. And from there I’ve booked separate shoots just for the couples that just got a chance to reconnect. As with any relationship, you need to be intentional and and little things go a long way. And taking that time to really just focus on the two of you is a beautiful thing.

00:24:17:12 – 00:24:53:25

Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think that’s so unique in a lot of ways because you see engagement, photography, obviously like advertised by wedding photographers all the time. Obviously, wedding photos. But yeah, you’re right. Like, when do people market to couples? And it’s after that. We are without a baby being involved, right? Or a child. So I think that’s really, really powerful. And it’s a very similar message to when we market to just a solo woman about, you know, putting yourself first and being in photos, maybe for yourself and not just with, you know, your children in the photos.

00:24:54:03 – 00:25:15:19

But now it’s like talking about putting your marriage or partnership first, you know, beyond just the family unit. So I think that’s really powerful and potentially powerful for couples. You, for a multitude of reasons, may not also have children in their lives and don’t feel seen in photography marketing.

00:25:16:05 – 00:25:18:06

And that’s a that’s a great point.

00:25:19:00 – 00:25:25:21

Yeah. So I love that. So have you started a book like, where are you in the process with this campaign?

00:25:26:03 – 00:25:30:09

I’m in the beginning stages of it. You know, as I’ve been,

00:25:31:27 – 00:26:04:09

as I’ve been photographing them. And then just the feedback when I post couples and just all the DMs and the emails and and I’m starting to realize, Hey, there’s a need for this. This is something really worthwhile. So it’s something I’m going to really push harder for in January. I’m still getting the marketing together and getting the ads together, but I’m letting it happen organically through my family shoots for now. And like I said, a couple have called back and booked they want to come back without the kids and do a longer couples session.

00:26:04:21 – 00:26:06:15

So I’m excited about it.

00:26:07:13 – 00:26:23:16

So, oh, I think January is a fantastic time with with Valentine’s Day right around the corner. It’s a great opportunity to start marketing this couples campaign. I love the title, by the way. You know the Love project. That is awesome.

00:26:24:03 – 00:26:58:16

Thank you. And I’ve also found that as far as Wall art sales, for me, it’s a little easier with a family or with a couple. They’ll put that up on the wall. Big, you know? Yeah. As opposed to an individual woman, I sell a lot more folio boxes than Wall art of individual women, and I do see some people that are very successful with Walmart, with with women. I just haven’t been. But for me, families and I’m seeing that, yeah, they do need to update that big photo over the fireplace from the wedding photo to something more recent.

00:26:59:02 – 00:27:13:09

So is the couple’s camping. What product, then, are you kind of thinking of creating for them? Is it going to be? Is it going to be? Do you plan on making an album? Kind of. Are you going to push that more heavily or

00:27:13:17 – 00:27:35:00

I’m pushing the Wall art? Yeah. What’s included is a larger print, a larger mat at print, or they can choose a canvas that’s beautiful. So canvas, what is a large canvas? But you know, a desk, a desk canvas or a larger matted print

00:27:35:17 – 00:27:54:03

So what can you walk us through because you walked us through the 50 over 50 kind of package pricing? What is like the entry point starting price to participate in the love project? And like you said, it includes the desk canvas or the larger print. But can you kind of walk us through like what it all looks like, what they get?

00:27:54:19 – 00:28:25:29

OK? This session is 450, and what they get would be the instead of five by seven matted to the eight by 10. It’s the eight by 10 added to 11 by 14 or an 11 by 14 canvas. It’s kind of like, you know, more of a desk kind of thing, and they would get a credit towards a larger I use graphi for the premium canvas. And so that can be pricey. Yeah, I can’t just give that away.

00:28:26:14 – 00:28:28:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

00:28:28:11 – 00:28:31:13

But but I can give them a print credit toward it.

00:28:31:28 – 00:28:36:08

And are they is the are they getting her makeup too? Yes.

00:28:36:18 – 00:28:41:02

Always. Any time a woman comes in my studio, she’s getting. She’s getting the glam.

00:28:41:15 – 00:28:42:18

OK, awesome.

00:28:44:19 – 00:29:03:16

And so you’ve booked some people in, but do you have like a goal of how many people you want? I know you said with the people, you didn’t really do 50 over 50, you did like Fabulous 50, so you didn’t really have a number tied to it. Is it the same here? Like, how do you know when you’re complete on something if you don’t have a number tied to it?

00:29:04:13 – 00:29:14:28

You know, I know that I’m definitely going to do twenty five. Twenty five is my minimum. OK, got it. And I’m also adding on video I started doing.

00:29:16:28 – 00:29:43:27

I started doing like I always do the slideshows with the reveals, like adding in video clips and things like that. And there is a product called The Playbook that, oh gosh, why is that vendor flying out of my head right now? My gosh. But it’s a video album. It looks like maybe a five by seven size. You open it up and the the video automatically plays, Oh my goodness, what is that we use?

00:29:43:29 – 00:29:56:15

So is it kind of like the graphi has like the revealed Box Dot, a movie like it’s the movie reveal box that they have. I know it’s not that exact yet, but that exact similar concept to the

00:29:56:17 – 00:30:10:11

album, but it’s a video album and you know that that went over very well. So I think that maybe, you know, then I think about it that maybe the item that I include

00:30:11:02 – 00:30:16:09

is that so with the video like an upsell or is it just something that’s going to come with the 450?

00:30:17:06 – 00:30:46:17

I think I may include it with the 450. I have to go crunch, crunch the numbers on that. But now that now that we’re talking about, I think that’s something that I definitely want to to either upsell or if I could include it, if I can make those numbers work, I’ll probably have to increase the session fee, the project fee for it. But it’s really nice because they open it up and it just starts playing and they’ve got retouched photos as well as clips of them interacting throughout the day throughout the session. It’s just it’s really cute and meaningful.

00:30:46:26 – 00:31:13:00

Oh, I love that. So, OK, so you’re thinking about what you want to include. You’re thinking you’re going to push this in January and you want to get to at least 25 people in. And I assume you’re wanting like your same average sale of twenty four hundred, correct? Yes. How many like with a project with 25 people, how long does that take you to shoot it? Like, how many shoots are you typically doing in a month or in a week?

00:31:14:03 – 00:31:17:27

I typically shoot three to four per week.

00:31:18:12 – 00:31:22:07

OK, so you could really get this done in a couple of months, then it seems like,

00:31:22:14 – 00:31:24:09

yeah, yeah, yes, I can do that.

00:31:24:29 – 00:31:27:29

Um, so what? Oh, you go, Kevin

00:31:29:00 – 00:31:45:04

in this entire process, are you still taking on your other clientele? I know you shoot branding and boudoir. Are you still taking in those clients or is this just become very time consuming that you have to kind of focus more on this than on those other aspects?

00:31:45:17 – 00:31:50:25

Oh, no I’m still taking on my other clientele, so it gets weaved in into the schedule.

00:31:51:27 – 00:32:40:25

Yeah, that’s that’s good, because I think that that also like from an income perspective, just helps to keep things really even I do the same thing with my campaigns and it’s like it just it really helps keep the money like where it needs to be. Exactly to you. So when you think because we’re also in this time of year, there’s, you know, final couple six weeks, I guess, of the year where it’s all about, you know, wrapping up and then thinking about our goals for the next year. So when you go to sit down and plan your 2022 or any new year, how many, you know campaigns do you think you can do in a year realistically while also serving your normal clientele? Is it one quarter? Is it more than that? Is it less than that? Like, where are you at?

00:32:41:19 – 00:32:47:24

I’m doing two. I’m going to do these two, and I think I can do them both simultaneously throughout the year.

00:32:49:22 – 00:33:03:19

That’s exactly what I was going to ask. I was going to see. Is it possible? Is it to come too time consuming to do just one, or is it possible to run a 40 or 45 or 50 alongside a another campaign?

00:33:04:06 – 00:33:34:21

I look at them as a sessions. You know, their clients and their sessions, and they may be participating in a project, but they’re still getting everything that a client gets. And my session, you know, I shoot Wednesdays through Sundays. I take Monday and Tuesday as my weekend. And you know what? What’s on my schedule. What’s on my schedule. That’s this day. Is it a couples session? Is it, you know, a woman session as a boudoir? What am I doing?

00:33:37:03 – 00:33:41:24

And I like it that way. I like variety. I’m not one that

00:33:43:20 – 00:34:07:23

I don’t like doing the same thing over and over and over again. I do like to have variety it just it’s just more fun for me, and I always the whole point for me of having my own business and doing something that I love is to love what I do. I wanted to ever become drudgery. I don’t want it ever to become routine or boring. So are boring. Yeah, I being bored, I think is the worst feeling

00:34:09:19 – 00:34:13:11

So it combats boredom. Definitely.

00:34:13:26 – 00:34:56:15

I have a question that I sense that people would ask in the group and that I’m going back to kind of the fear of putting something out as a project that people will not understand it’s a session that they will just think this is something you’re doing purely out of the goodness of your heart. It should all be free and not now. Yeah, that all push back on when it comes to paying for it, that they’ll push back when it comes to, you know, I know we said that your average sale is twenty four hundred on these, but I think a lot of people really struggle with getting over that hump and how to explain that, yeah, this is a project, but it was it was also get me paid.

00:34:56:17 – 00:34:57:02

You know,

00:34:58:18 – 00:35:02:15

how can you? Yeah, can you talk through your how you’ve dealt with that?

00:35:03:03 – 00:35:33:04

The way I’ve dealt with that is is the way I’ve dealt with all my clients and that I charge a session fee. And even even outside of a project, you know, you’re paying for the session and there’s no obligation to buy. I don’t like people pressuring me. I don’t like being pressured. I just tell them, I kind of I kind of see it as a joke, but it’s a ha. But I’m really serious. You know, I tell them that my job is to give you a beautiful product that you love and you love it so much.

00:35:33:06 – 00:36:08:19

You want it all. And I’m very good at my job and we all have a little chuckle with it. They say, Yeah, I know, and then I guess we’re going through things. We’re like, Oh, OK, I’m going to have to make sure there’s my card or I have to make sure I save up, you know, for the reveal. And so I’m planting those seeds, but I let them know. And even when I send the email to schedule the Zoom, I kind of reiterate what’s included and that there’s no obligation to buy more. I want you to only buy what you love, and it kind of keeps me motivated to do my best work, and it kind of lets them off the hook and feeling like they have to, whether they like it or not.

00:36:08:21 – 00:36:35:10

I think when you when you try to force something, people are going to immediately push back. Yeah, like, Oh, I have to buy this, or what if I don’t like, you know, and what if and what if, what if you know? But if it’s like, look, you just buy what you love, it’s my job to make sure that you love it. And then it’s like, Oh, OK, she’s she’s going to do everything in her power to make it so fabulous that I want them all. Yeah, I tell them that’s what I’m going to do and that’s what I do.

00:36:36:18 – 00:36:55:07

Yeah, I love that. And have you had anyone who inquired, maybe through Facebook ad, a Google ad or potentially organically, but I personally have experienced this more through ad clients. Scoff at the fact that you are charging money for this, then how do you handle that?

00:36:55:15 – 00:37:04:16

That’s exactly it. People through through the ads, that’s where I’ve had the most questions. You know, people who have been referred, never.

00:37:05:01 – 00:37:05:27

They understand

00:37:06:08 – 00:37:37:24

they understand it, and the person who referred them was raving about it, you know, and they were raving about the experience, raving about their images. Maybe they’ve seen them at home. So they’re really primed and they understand it, and people kind of get it like, you can’t have a 1500 square foot studio, that’s not free, like you have to you have to be getting hair and makeup. You know, you have, you know, champagne or a non-alcoholic, you know, drink and you have refreshments. That’s part of the questionnaire. I asked them what their preferences are.

00:37:38:07 – 00:37:47:06

You know, I get their their music preferences. I get all these things like, they know that that’s not free. So they they get the session fee thing like, OK, that makes sense, you know?

00:37:47:09 – 00:38:24:05

Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly. Yeah, that’s exactly how I explain it. Especially like, again, to the people who come from ads who may have been like, Oh, I didn’t realize this was going to cost money or whatever. I just say, like, really, you’re getting this at cost. I’m paying for a hair and makeup artist to be there like, I’m, you know, I lay out everything that’s included and I’m like, Yeah, all these people are getting paid. I’m actually not getting paid. If you only get the one image which like, so this really is a passion project for me. And you know, I’m going to do my job and make sure that you love all of the images and you know, you’re probably going to want to buy more.

00:38:24:07 – 00:38:38:21

But I just want you to know that like, I’m not, I’m not. This isn’t like a scheme or anything. This is just you paying for costs because I’m ultimately a small business and can’t just photograph 50 women out of out of pocket, you know?

00:38:39:00 – 00:39:06:09

And as you explain that and as you as you get more comfortable explaining that, I remember in the beginning I was a little nervous, you know, because when someone says that like, you know, your own internal stuff kind of comes up like, Oh yeah, they they think I’m a scammer, like what? You know? But then you realize they just don’t know. They yeah, they don’t know what goes into a photoshoot. Like, they have no idea. And so just, you know, calmly just explaining it. And if it’s not for them, it’s not for them.

00:39:06:27 – 00:39:44:08

Yeah, exactly. And that’s why I tell people to when they’re running like Facebook ads to understand that there is going to be a large percentage who don’t read things carefully, don’t get it, and don’t book, and that’s priced into everything that’s priced into your budget. So I just know that it’s not the same as an organic inquiry or a referral, but that doesn’t mean that the ads aren’t incredibly powerful and cannot. I mean, they will make your ship go faster in terms of booking, but you kind of have to put your armor on in terms of your expectation. Right,

00:39:44:21 – 00:40:14:29

that call that consultation is going to be, you know, you’re most involved consultation because they don’t know you, so they don’t know that you’re a good person. They don’t know how sweet you are. They don’t know how passionate you are about what you do. You know, they may have had a bad experience. I’ve had so many people, so many clients that have become my clients because they’ve had bad portrait experiences. So when it’s a stranger who just saw your ad, you know, calling you, they have no idea what to expect.

00:40:15:01 – 00:40:29:12

So you can’t take it personally. You just have to, you know, just be yourself. And yeah, they’ll get to know through the conversation. Like, you’ll literally hear them loosen up. You’ll you can tell that they’re like exhaling

00:40:31:13 – 00:40:46:19

because you can just hear a total change in tone, whereas the initial conversation initially, it might be a little kind of, you know, sharp. And they have these questions because you have you have no idea what experiences are coming with them before they talk to you.

00:40:47:06 – 00:41:13:07

Kirsten, I wanted to ask, Is there anything in your marketing of in your ads, whether it’s for Google or for Facebook, where you’re kind of like putting information in there to kind of let them know that, hey, it’s a paid shoot, this isn’t free. Is there anything that kind of helps you weed them out? Or do you just take as many people as you can and then we them out with through email or text message your conversation?

00:41:13:27 – 00:41:44:24

Well, I do put the price to book. I do put that in there, and I also explain all that comes with it. So when I get even. A general inquiry, I’ll I’ll send that link, I’ll include the link to the page and they can read through everything. And if they haven’t, you know, because like, as you said, people don’t always read I, I just say, Oh, you know what? I’m so glad you’re interested. Let me walk you through this. And I just tell them everything. I tell them my story.

00:41:44:26 – 00:41:54:03

I tell them why I’m doing it. I tell them what I’m doing and what’s included. And yeah, I mean that that’s fine for the majority of the people.

00:41:55:09 – 00:42:30:07

Yeah, exactly. And they’re either, you know, I found that once you get people in that conversation, even if it’s a no, it’s they get it like it’s no, it’s not in their budget. It wasn’t what they were expecting. And that’s totally fine. And what I’ve also found is that often times in these campaigns, a no is a no right now, but they’re still watching you on social media. They’re still interested in what you do. In fact, I’m having a reveal today for a client who booked me for full personal branding shoot.

00:42:30:09 – 00:43:05:15

And when she inquired, I was like, Gosh, your name sounds really familiar, but I don’t know why. And she was like, Oh, and she didn’t really tell me. And then at the photoshoot, she was like, You’re the photographer who did that 50 over 50 campaign about a year and a half ago. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, Oh, did you inquire about that? Yeah. And she was like, Yeah, I did. But it just wasn’t right at the time. But I’ve been following you ever since. And, you know, I needed to update my photos and, you know, so you were the first person who came to mind.

00:43:05:22 – 00:43:25:25

So that and she found me through an ad. So it’s like that ad brought me a client almost two years later. So it’s sometimes very hard to really realize the return on investment on these projects because sometimes the yes comes down the line and not even for the project itself.

00:43:25:29 – 00:43:51:01

That’s an excellent point. And anyone who’s just thinking about starting a campaign, you said it, you said a few things that were really key. Know that it could be down the line. They’re definitely watching you. So if they’re not interested, they don’t book during your consultation. Get them on your email list, you know, make sure they’re on your email list so you can continue to periodically stay in touch with them. They see what’s going on.

00:43:52:29 – 00:44:25:27

Let them follow you. You know, invite them to follow you. And so they’ll see what you’re posting because the more they see, the more interest they get. Also, what’s powerful VIDEO sometimes might show the reveal videos you can you can share those or snippets of them and people like to see behind the scenes. You know, one thing I to realize that a lot of people don’t do photoshoots often, and so it might be their first time, whether it’s part of the campaign or not. They just don’t look for a portrait studio.

00:44:26:06 – 00:45:14:02

And so they don’t know what to expect. So showing them is sometimes even better than telling them. And as they see more and more and more, they’re going to love it. I also like to use the word campaign as well as project, because when people hear Project, they do think, Oh, free, I’m helping her out. I’m doing her a favor. You know, as you say, campaign people get it. They’ve heard about ad campaigns, they’ve heard of that. And they know when a company does an ad campaign, it’s to sell product. So kind of inserting that into the conversation that yes, even if you call it, you know, your whatever project as you’re discussing it, you know, use the word campaign, pepper your conversation with campaign and you just keep planting those seeds that yeah, this is something like I am a for profit business.

00:45:14:04 – 00:45:14:19

You know,

00:45:16:03 – 00:45:18:12

they’ll get it. They’ll take the hint, they get it.

00:45:19:06 – 00:45:49:29

So you brought up an amazing point about video and this is one thing that I always like talking about when I talk to photographers about how you can get more clients is just social media now is show video. But it’s like when you think about it, TikTok, Instagram, Instagram is more video these days than it is  photo. And sometimes people like bemoan that. But at the same time, like video is the thing typically that will take someone from.

00:45:50:08 – 00:45:53:08

I’m kind of interested to like, Well, I’m interested,

00:45:55:01 – 00:45:55:16

kind of

00:45:55:23 – 00:46:30:06

they get to be a fly on the wall. And yeah, I have to remind myself to do more. VIDEO And there’s so many times after a session like, Oh man, I didn’t take, I didn’t remember to get more, you know, behind the scenes. And and then it’s, you know, finding the time to put it all together. But video has sealed the deal. What you know more times than not, if someone’s on the fence and they, I ask them, I will. What made you decide now? Because if they say I’ve been following you for a while, oh, well, what made you? And they’ll usually say, Oh, well, I saw I saw this and I realized, you know, I can do this, I don’t have to be afraid.

00:46:30:21 – 00:47:05:17

So whether it’s seeing them in the makeup chair, seeing a client, you know, whatever snippets they’ll do. And now it’s cool because clients want to do reels and TikToks. And I’m learning, yeah, tons. But they’re excited. They don’t know how to do it. You know, I don’t know how to do it. So we’re learning. It’s fun. That’s hilarious. But it gives me more to to show. You know, so it’s fun. All of it is fun and we take it too seriously. It’s just it’s going to be overwhelming. So instead of looking at the whole thing, just look at one step at a time, one piece at a time.

00:47:05:21 – 00:47:11:04

One client at a time. And before you know it, you know you’ve built something beautiful. Yeah.

00:47:11:12 – 00:47:19:10

Have you considered hiring like a video assistant or a videographer on any? And so tell me about that.

00:47:19:26 – 00:47:22:19

Absolutely, yes. I’m looking.

00:47:23:21 – 00:47:25:15

But you haven’t. You haven’t actually never

00:47:25:17 – 00:47:34:24

actually hired yet. I do have a makeup artist that she always does. You know, some have some behind the scenes, even if I forget to ask, like, she just does it so.

00:47:34:26 – 00:47:37:04

Oh, that’s awesome. I have to remember to ask.

00:47:37:15 – 00:48:03:25

Phenomenal. And I’m going to, you know, approach her about if she wants to to kind of do that, do that for me. That would be wonderful. But yeah, I’m looking. I’m looking for especially someone younger who really knows these TikToks and reels that they can just do it. So I’m looking for I’m not that far from a college. I’m looking for a college student or recent grad, you know, that would like to do that as a part time job.

00:48:04:14 – 00:48:16:07

That’s awesome. I think that’s a really great and resourceful idea for people listening as well to remember that they’re college students like man, for me in college, I would have been like, we didn’t have that back then, but

00:48:17:20 – 00:48:21:14

but I happen to like that for fun. Yeah, I would have been fun.

00:48:22:06 – 00:48:28:20

Yeah, exactly. It would have been fun. I went to film school, so I would have been like up my alley and I would have been like, like,

00:48:28:22 – 00:49:04:08

twenty five dollars, I’m getting sushi tonight. Exactly. You never know. You know, you may be able to work out something where they get credit. You know where they they might get credit or like an internship possibility. Who knows? But you know, I’m thinking it takes me like a long time to figure out and piece things together and somebody else. Or maybe like they could do it in minutes. So why am I beating my head against the wall? Let me just, you know, find someone to do it. So that’s definitely a goal to have someone someone in place by January.

00:49:05:16 – 00:49:22:06

So along with videos that you pointed out and behind the scenes and creating snippets. What else is do you plan on putting towards the marketing? What goes into it? What do you plan to have for this upcoming campaign in January

00:49:23:14 – 00:49:56:01

for this upcoming campaign? I think I want to do some events. For me, in-person events are great. It’s tricky because, you know, with with the pandemic, but things are loosening up a little bit and I don’t want to do anything huge, just small, intimate events that are couple related and just, you know, getting people together and staying top of mind and doing things that aren’t so much salesy but kind of lead to it, you know, if you’re in my studio.

00:49:56:29 – 00:50:31:11

Another thing for photographers, make sure you have samples. Samples will sell you without you having to say a word. If they’re looking at albums while they’re, you know, getting their makeup done or they’re looking around and seeing beautiful things on the wall, they’re going to ask you questions about it. They’re going to want to know. So just make sure that’s around. So I do want to have like some, some small like events and couple really related things where couples would come. And you know, they’re going to see they’re going to see what I do and have to offer. And while I’m not selling selling, I’m selling.

00:50:31:15 – 00:51:01:23

Maybe I’ll have a drawing and maybe I’ll have, you know, that’s a kind of special gift or something that they’ll get in the drawing. But I want to just plant those seeds. Another thing I’m going to do, I always use an email signature and email signature with my picture, as well as, you know, links to click on. But I want to update that and make it a little more snazzy. And so all of my correspondence will kind of work for me a little bit more then.

00:51:02:00 – 00:51:03:08

Yeah, then right now,

00:51:04:01 – 00:51:26:09

you know what? I was going to say just to go back to your idea of the events is that, like my mind right now, is racing because there are so many potential business to business collaborations that would be mutual then mutually beneficial with couples like a couples therapist, a dance like, you know, like a ballroom dance person.

00:51:26:11 – 00:51:31:07

How fun would that be if they learn a dance? You know, like that?

00:51:31:09 – 00:51:38:24

Yeah, I mean, yeah, like there’s just so many there is. I mean, like you could even do, maybe like an appropriate

00:51:38:26 – 00:51:41:01

couples massage like a little neck massage,

00:51:45:17 – 00:52:18:14

but you’re thinking the way I am sizing my network, my my. Clients that have businesses and giving them some, some exposure to potential clients, but also kind of warming potential clients to my project as well. So like, we’re kind of doing good things for everyone and when you do that, you know, good things happen. There’s also a lot of there. There are tons of husband and wife teams. So my branding clients, you know, they may work with their husband and hey, let, let’s do it.

00:52:18:16 – 00:52:38:14

So there are just so many ways. And as I’ve been thinking about it, like, I just have a notebook of ideas that I’ve been, you know, jotting down to just kind of fine tune it and and just have more fun with it, include more people. But I think events are going to small, intimate events are going to be a big part of my advertising.

00:52:38:24 – 00:52:55:14

Yeah, I love that and I think it fits with the whole couple seemed to make it small, an intimate, you know, because like, it’s just, you know, you might not want to do something like a dance lesson with 50 people even, you know, taking the pandemic out, right? But yeah,

00:52:55:16 – 00:52:56:28

I love you. That’s different, you know?

00:52:57:03 – 00:53:22:07

Five couples like. That’s fun. Yeah. So I think that this project is like, has so much potential in it for, you know, this time that we’re in with the pandemic with, you know, the fact that it’s kind of an untapped brand new market in the sense of non-engagement couples photography like more mature in their relationship couple.

00:53:23:27 – 00:53:33:08

I’m really excited for you, and I hope that when you’re complete, you can maybe come back on as a guest and give us all the statistics and details about it because

00:53:34:11 – 00:53:36:23

we absolutely will do. We’ll do a check in

00:53:38:09 – 00:53:41:07

I want numbers, girl. I hope you’re tracking everything.

00:53:42:14 – 00:53:44:09

Yes, every single thing.

00:53:46:14 – 00:53:52:00

I’m excited to hear about your studio just becoming the couple’s hotspot for your area.

00:53:52:07 – 00:54:23:09

Oh yeah. You know, it’s amazing as as we do this longer, you just come up with more ideas of what what’s possible instead of looking at what you don’t have. Like, I see people in the group say, Well, I don’t have a space or I don’t have a big space or I don’t have this or my market that I mean some of those things. They may be true, but there’s always an upside. There’s always a way that you can make it happen like, OK, we can’t have big events because we are still in a pandemic, but we can have smaller ones

00:54:23:23 – 00:54:25:17

or you can have a Zoom event like Zoom

00:54:26:00 – 00:54:45:04

events. Yeah, it can still be good, always something that we can do. And if we focus on that, it just gives us more personal power that we still are in control of our destinies. We can still make a difference and not be victimized. You know, it’s just the glass is half full.

00:54:46:12 – 00:55:10:29

Yeah, I love that. And I think it’s just a great reminder for just this. Again, this season of the year that we’re in where we all kind of turn inward, we start getting our journal, our goal journals out and start, you know, goal setting and making our plans. And just, you know, remembering that always ask ourselves what, like what is possible instead of looking at all the potential limitations that we might see for ourselves?

00:55:11:14 – 00:55:37:16

Right. It’s important to troubleshoot, but just just don’t stay there, you know, because then you won’t make a move, you won’t do anything. And then next thing you know, like all those things that were in your journal and your list to do, it’ll be November of next year and you haven’t done them. So, you know, troubleshoot, think of what could happen. But, you know, do action a small action every day, just go for it. And if it flops away, at least now, you know, that doesn’t work.

00:55:39:02 – 00:56:20:29

Yeah, unless I was talking to a friend who’s a business owner, but she’s not a photographer, but she’s an artist and she was selling, you know, art that she made. And I was telling her, like, Just remember that you can’t fail like you may not sell your inventory as quickly as you want, but you will sell it and you will sell it eventually. And I think sometimes if we just take the pressure of failing off of us and realize that, like, what if I can’t fail? What if I just what if this takes me longer to fill 50 seats? Or what if this, you know, maybe not everyone buys images, but the leader down the road? Refer me, clients.

00:56:21:01 – 00:56:38:26

And now I’ve built a great portfolio and a great network of people like what are the wins in every situation? So I think that’s a really big mindset thing that people can take forward when they’re in that place of wanting to do a project. But a little afraid of it is like, just remember that you can’t really fail right.

00:56:38:28 – 00:57:07:14

You can’t really fail in anything new is going to, you know, give you a few butterflies, you know, because it’s new. But as you do it, you know, like I was talking about the consultations with people who are like, Oh, this is paid, you know, I was nervous about that until I did a few of them, and it’s not so bad. They soften up. They all soften up. So just just put yourself out there, just do it. And as long as you love it and you’re having fun with it, it’s all good.

00:57:09:23 – 00:57:25:13

Well, Kirsten, thank you very much. That is fantastic. Everything has been absolutely fantastic. We have come to the one hour mark and before we end everything, I always like to ask people if you can go ahead and share socials with us and way people know where to follow you.

00:57:26:01 – 00:57:42:27

OK, great on Instagram. I am Kirsten White Photo. That’s k i r s t e n w h I t e p h o t o. And on this one, i am on here too. On Facebook, I’m Kirsten White Photography.

00:57:44:07 – 00:58:19:12

Fantastic. Everyone, please, please, please be sure to follow Kirsten. And please make sure to follow the portrait system on Instagram and on Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out the blog post that are associated with the Clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. You can follow Ashleigh Instagram at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait and you can find me there as Pop Light underscore photography. And if you are a member of Sue Bryce Education and you have more questions for Kirsten, Ashleigh or myself, go tag us on a post in the SBE members only Facebook Group.

00:58:19:24 – 00:58:34:00

If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education and you are interested in learning more about how it can help your business succeed. Please email Ella in support and support@SueBryceEducation.com. Thank you again for joining us and hope you can join us next week.

00:58:34:20 – 00:59:10:07

Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our clubhouse interviews at SueBryceEducation.com/blog. If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education, you have any more questions for David, Ashleigh or myself go tag us in a post in the Sue Bryce Members Only Facebook group. If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, and you are interested in learning more about how we can help you and your business succeed, email Ella with support at support@SueBryceEducation.com.

Thank you again for joining us and we hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.