Dance Portrait Passion with Michell Santelik

January 14, 2022 Artist Spotlight

Episode 108: Michell Santelik

If you could shoot one genre of portrait photography every day of your life, what would it be? A dear friend of Michell Santelik asked her this many years ago, and it forever changed the course of her career.

In Episode 108 of the Portrait System Podcast, Nikki Closser chats with Michell Santelik about photographing dancers. Michell has a portrait photography business based in Crown Point, Indiana, which lives in a studio above a well-known hair salon. There she takes modern portraits, personal branding portraits, and especially pursues her passion of making dance portraits.

Be sure to listen to the whole podcast to hear special tips for photographing dancers, such as:

  • making sure they have enough space to warm up,
  • properly securing all equipment so nothing gets knocked over,
  • and taking on the role of director/choreographer.

You also won’t want to miss hearing all about Michell’s Dance MODEL TEAM, which ensures Michell always has dancers to photograph and mentor. At the same time, it provides her with so much organic marketing on TikTok, Instagram, and in local dance studios.

Michell has been in the business since she was 14 years old and learned from her first mentor that successfully running a studio requires:

  • that you be creative,
  • that you learn from a master,
  • and especially, that you get good in business.

Tune in for tons of great advice from Michell. And of course, Nikki brings such great perspective. This time, she makes sure to tease out how even if you aren’t interested in learning about dance photography, you can still learn so much from Michell about how to make the most out of your passion, and at the same time, convert your clients cross-genre for even more sales. It all really comes down to having certainty and conviction in the value of what you provide and how your skills can make life so much easier for your clients. Be sure to tune in for all the inspiring details and stories.

Here are links to some things mentioned in this conversation: Working with Body Paint and Clay, Dayron Vera: Portrait Masters Conference 2019, and The Portrait Masters Awards & Accreditation.

In this blog, you’ll find some of Michell’s gorgeous portraits, links to her web presence, and answers to some bonus questions.

Get to Know Michell Santelik

Q: Most artists have a point in their life when they knew this was meant for them. Do you have that moment?

A: When I was growing up, my sister and I would dive into every issue of Vogue magazine. I loved the styling very much but more importantly, were the photographs. I was inspired to become an apprentice to a Master accredited photographer when I was 14 years old. I often say that I grew up in the industry. I knew from the beginning that photography was what I was meant to do, and now I am the Master photographer with an apprentice.

Q: Making a connection with your subject is one of the most important parts of a great portrait. How do you make lasting connections with your client?

A: This is definitely the most important part of my work. I photograph mainly dancers — youth and professional. I establish a level of trust with them as I am not only the photographer but also their director on our photoshoots. They need to believe in my vision for their portrait and trust my direction. Sometimes it’s just about the movement, and other times, I’m directing them through the emotion of the movement. The connection we establish is visible in the image. 

Q: What does the Sue Bryce community mean to you?

A: I absolutely LOVE this community. I have been a part of SBE since 2016, an active member in the Facebook group, and attended every Portrait Master Conference. Throughout that time, I have made great business connections, but most important are the friendships that I have formed. We understand, encourage, and celebrate each other on almost a daily basis. 

Q: Everyone has a favorite shoot, tell us about yours and why its your favorite.

A: One of my favorites was a test shoot. Izzy, my apprentice who is also a ballet dancer, volunteered to be covered head to toe in a clay-like mixture. I needed to see how effective it would be for my Dance MODEL TEAM photoshoot. Well, we had so much fun that day, and the images were incredible. There is a behind-the-scenes on my IG of Izzy and I that makes me laugh every time I see it. That shoot also showed me that when you exist in a state of creation you attract others who believe in you.

Q: How has Sue Bryce Education changed your life for the better?

A: Through education, Sue Bryce uplifts those who have the desire to act upon their dreams. By listening to her powerful talks and by doing the work, I have elevated my craft and business to a level I am proud of. I always say “photography is my lifestyle” because ultimately I will be a photographer for the rest of my life. SBE has helped me secure that path, and I am grateful.

Q: Where do you see yourself in 5 yrs?

A: I will continue to run my portrait studio and mentor other photographers who wish to pursue studio dance photography.


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Michell Santelik

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Transcript

Click Here to Read the Podcast Transcript

FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:02:09

You’re listening to the Portrait System podcast.

00:00:02:22 – 00:00:29:10

You know, when you got it, it’s this moment that happens. And may it be like me dancers or may it be whatever genre it is, you love the most. It’s like, Don’t stop, like, don’t settle. Don’t say, Yeah, it’s good enough because there’s no such thing as good enough. It’s what is going to make you so happy and proud that you did this for them, and they’re going to have this forever.

00:00:31:25 – 00:01:06:00

This is the Portrait System Podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one. Navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser, and the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear.

This week, my guest is Michell Santelik, and she is a photographer in the Midwest, and while she photographed several different genres, her main focus is on dancers.

00:01:06:09 – 00:01:29:11

Michell has been doing this for a long time, and she shares with us some tips and tricks for how to shoot dancers in a way that will honor proper dance moves. And she also tells us about how she markets her business in general. Michell is just really great at building relationships, and she has a strong referral base and she doesn’t hold back with what she gives us during this interview. I’m excited for you to learn more about what she does, so let’s get started with Michell Santelik.

00:01:31:03 – 00:01:33:21

Hey, Michelle. Welcome to the portrait system, how are you?

00:01:34:00 – 00:01:35:25

Hey, Nikki, doing good? How are you?

00:01:36:03 – 00:01:39:13

I’m good. Hey, where are you at right now? Where are you? Where are you recording from?

00:01:39:25 – 00:01:44:23

I’m in my studio here in Crown Point Indiana, which is a part of Chicagoland.

00:01:45:06 – 00:01:49:18

Nice. Very cool. Tell us about your studio before we get into your photography story.

00:01:50:12 – 00:02:17:06

Well, my studio is situated on the square here in our city. We have like the beautiful courthouse in the square around it. And luckily enough, I’m positioned above the best salon in Northwest Indiana, there’s three location. Yeah. So there’s three locations and my studio is the entire floor above them. And we do so much relationship business. It’s pretty amazing. I’m pretty happy with it.

00:02:17:08 – 00:02:23:15

Wow. Oh, tell me about that. I would love to hear how that works, how you, how you partner with them.

00:02:23:29 – 00:02:58:00

Well, something that really worked out from the beginning is the owner. I mean, he’s a great guy. His name is Chris. I love him, and we sat down one day and well I should rewind. One of the stylists who does my hair. She knew I was a photographer and she had come to my home studio and I did a whole bunch of work for her. And then she spoke to the owner and she’s like, Hey, I know a photographer. I think she’d be great for the space upstairs. And he said, You know, wait a minute, I, we have to be careful because there are a lot of people just starting out or doing things as a hobby.

00:02:58:02 – 00:03:33:05

I just got to be sure it’s a real business. And she logged into my website, showed him my work, and then he called me. So then we had a meeting and really talked and he asked, you know, about my portrait work and the vision of it and that kind of thing. So really, now when people come here and it’s really nice to say, you know where my studio is located and I’m above in the salon and they’re like, Oh yeah, we know about them or they already go there and they see my work actually hanging on the walls. What’s nice is that when you come to my studio, a part of the whole experience is getting your hair done downstairs.

00:03:33:07 – 00:04:06:09

Like, I meet them. We hang up their clothes, we go into the salon, I introduce them to whoever the stylist is for the day. Then I go upstairs and I start planning and doing and whatnot for the shoot. Then I come back down, check on them, and after that, you know, they come right upstairs. But what’s nice is that the way it’s billed, it’s billed to me. So my client never has to worry about any of that. I mean, they can sit there if they want, you know, they always do. But nope, it’s all a part of it. And then usually when they come up here, then my makeup artist is here.

00:04:06:11 – 00:04:12:12

And then she continues the whole experience and we go from there and it’s just as all it’s just

00:04:12:16 – 00:04:15:12

it is really nice and so convenient.

00:04:15:23 – 00:04:29:29

Oh yeah, because then people can get their hair done. And what we always say is you’re getting your hair done and you’re literally coming right upstairs. You’re not then getting into a car when it’s raining and driving across town. It’s like everything is here. So it is great for the clients.

00:04:30:07 – 00:04:53:10

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so another thing that I love about that too, is that gives you time to be in your studio and planning their shoot and just kind of getting yourself together. At least I know I love that time to have. Yes. Of course, like, I’m getting them started with the hair and makeup artists and I’m talking with them. But then I like a good 30 minutes in there just to, like, design their shoot and get myself together. Do you experience that too?

00:04:53:21 – 00:05:29:27

Oh yes, absolutely. Like my assistants, what we’ll do is while the person is downstairs, we will look at the clothes that they brought or anything from the studio wardrobe that we know we want to put them in and we will already look right from there and say, OK, I want this outfit on this backdrop, and we kind of plan it that way. So, you know, it’s like, really awesome touch base. And then so when the client is up here, it’s so smooth like we already know what we’re going to do and where we’re at. I mean, because everyone has that moment in a session when it’s like, What should we do now? Well, this eliminates that.

00:05:31:00 – 00:05:44:10

Yeah, yeah. Now, as far as marketing with those stylists like, are you getting your own clients elsewhere? And then you just give them the business and then, you know, we just work together or are you getting actual clients from them?

00:05:45:00 – 00:06:16:29

It’s both. It’s both because, yes, my clients will come in and, you know, obviously introduce them to the salon. And it’s nice because if they wind up being a client there, you know, everyone’s happy. But with the salon now again, he has three locations. I, the last few years now have been doing all of his commercial work recently, and what’s really nice is the clients will be in the the salons and they’ll look up at the walls and they’ll see the portraits, they’ll see the work and they usually ask then like, Wow, who did that? And when they direct them to me.

00:06:17:06 – 00:06:22:01

So now that’s three locations worth of people sending stuff over to me.

00:06:22:07 – 00:06:30:17

Right, right. Oh, that’s awesome. Do you do you do any sort of like leave them with any sort of gift vouchers or anything? Or is it just sort of word of mouth? Or do you have cards?

00:06:30:19 – 00:07:01:00

How does that? Yes. Yeah, they have all my, you know, my cards, gift vouchers, I definitely give those to the the stylists I work with, you know, a lot and it’s an incentive to them. You know, if they pass it out to one of their really good clients or someone that had a major transformation or whatever, then they can go ahead and give them one of my gift vouchers. And depending on what I decided to put on there, I mean, it may be, you know, the free session.

00:07:01:02 – 00:07:11:17

It may be a credit towards purchase, whatever it is. You know, I change it up a lot, but I do make sure that the stylists have something to give them, you know, in hand.

00:07:11:27 – 00:07:35:27

Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. OK. All right. So I know that you do a lot of dance photography. Yes. And I definitely want to talk about that. But let’s back up a little bit and tell me how you kind of started and how you ended up into dance. And then I know you also do sort of, you know, beauty portraits and personal branding, and you do you do a wide range, but just kind of start from the beginning?

00:07:36:21 – 00:08:07:29

OK, well, I like to tell everyone that I grew up in the industry. So when I was about 14 years old, I begged for my first job. I went to the studio in town and I just wanted to see what type of position I could get. Could I work? And at that point it was here you’re allowed to use the gaffers tape and be quiet like that, was it? So it’s like, OK, I want to be here that much. I will keep my mouth shut and I will stand here.

00:08:08:01 – 00:08:45:27

I will pay attention. And then over time, I started really assisting and learning from their. My first mentor? His name was Ted Wahlberg. He was a master photographer, a master craftsman, and he was a second generation studio owner. And when we met at that point, he was already, you know, over 60 something years old. And, you know, I was just a kid. So after a few years of being a part of the studio, then I kind of became the right hand man. And so we talked a lot about what I wanted, and it was interesting because we were sitting there because it was not just working in his portrait studio.

00:08:45:29 – 00:09:20:15

We did portrait. We went on panoramics. We did proms and anything like that. But he also had his own lab. So I started in the film days and like my first camera was Amamiya six, four or five medium format film. But anyway, so we’d be working on things, and I remember one day. So this is a few years in and we were sitting in the lab. It was probably 1:00 a.m. We’re running all these prints and he goes, So kiddo, what is it you want to do when you grow up? And I thought looked at him and I didn’t have to think long, and I said, Well, I want to be you, Ted.

00:09:21:00 – 00:09:52:07

And he laughed, and he goes, So yeah, he goes, So you want to be a professional photographer? And I was looking at this man and he had the typical feet up on the desk, hands behind the head. So what do I do? I put my feet up on this desk, lean back and say, No, Ted, I want to be you. And he goes, Oh, so you want to be the studio owner? I’m like, Yes. So he smiles, and he says, OK. He’s like, There are three things you want to know. It’s like, if you’re going to listen, I’ll tell you. And I thought this was it like, I’m thinking he’s going to tell me what type of camera to buy.

00:09:52:09 – 00:10:22:13

He’s going to tell me what school to go do. So he sits forward here, I should say, sits up and I do too. And he says, Well, kiddo number one, it’s like, you’ve got to be creative. It’s like, I can’t teach you that you’re already creative. So you already have that like, awesome check, you know, one box checked. And he’s like, number two. And I’m thinking, This is it. It’s got to be by a Hasselblad. But he looks at me and he goes, No number two. He’s like, You need to learn from a master. And I was like, OK. And he tells me, You know, I am master accredited. I have the studio.

00:10:22:15 – 00:10:55:06

And if you’re willing to do the work, if you truly are, then I’m willing to teach you as an apprentice. And that was it. I was so excited. And then he goes, OK, now this is it. This is the most important. This is number three. Are you ready? And I leaned forward and he leaned forward. And it was funny because I’m thinking at this point, being naive like it has to be the the camera, the type of camera, you know, because of course, that’s all the magic in your brain when you’re young. And he really leans in and mind you, this is back in the film days.

00:10:55:08 – 00:11:28:03

This is the second generation photographer, but he leans in and says, Get good in business or get out of my way. And that shook me. I mean, that shook me and I didn’t know what to say. And he said, Listen, kiddo, the reason why I am saying that is that there’s a lot of people that can be great photographers, but they’re terrible business people he’s like and then they give up. He goes, Or there’s people that are great photographers and great business people, and those are the studio owners.

00:11:28:05 – 00:11:58:22

He goes on, If you want to be me, then that’s what you’re going to have to learn. Hmm. And I’m like that. Yeah, that was like the greatest lesson ever. And that’s what that’s what I was a kid like. I think at that point I was about, I don’t know, 18, 19 years old. And I mean, there’s photographers now that I meet and, you know, all these years later and they’re just, you know, maybe they’re transitioning from another career. And I love telling on my Ted story because it’s true. And what’s super nice? That’s what Sue says all the time.

00:11:59:04 – 00:12:03:03

You learn the business and so that you can flourish with your creativity.

00:12:03:05 – 00:12:14:24

And absolutely, you can be the best photographer in the world and not be able to sell your work or have any idea how to run a business or be a mediocre photographer and make a shit ton of money. Because technically,

00:12:15:04 – 00:12:46:12

you know what to do. Yeah, you don’t want to. Do you know what to say? You could do whatever you want, and it’s like. And then you do it. You get the people that are winning all these awards and they are just it. Maybe it’s self value, I don’t know, but it’s a like, is that OK to charge? And you look at that and you’re like, You’re phenomenal. Yes, you should be charging. But yeah, no, I started there. And again, that was like back in the film days. And then after a few years of that, I went on to my next mentor, Ray Price.

00:12:46:14 – 00:13:22:15

I helped him build his his dream studio because he was a sports photographer and, you know, about seven years working with him. So like, Ted taught me photography and the love for it. Ray taught me the business end, and that was like the best education right there. And then at the at the end of that, it was a hug and a handshake because I knew that I was so proud of everything that I did and everything that I learned, and Ray was so happy. But it wasn’t my dream. I mean, I very easily could have just continued in that avenue of photography, but that’s not where my heart is.

00:13:22:27 – 00:13:37:24

So then in 2009, that’s when I went on my own, and that was it. It was like, you know, it’s not a matter of will this work? Or If it works, this is who I am, it’s going to work. And the story,

00:13:39:01 – 00:14:01:16

isn’t it funny once you make that decision, that certainty is always a certainty and conviction. And yes, it absolutely. I remember when I was quitting my social work job and I had the same mentality. It wasn’t even an option that I wasn’t going to be successful and and make it work. And I didn’t really have work. I just was determined and Sue was like, You had certainty and conviction. And I was like, Yes, yes, I do.

00:14:01:18 – 00:14:33:03

Absolutely. You have to have those things and there is a level of confidence. And and unfortunately, a lot of people mistake confidence for arrogance. And no, it’s there’s two separate things. So if you have all the confidence in yourself, you can do it. I think another thing that Sue says all the time that resonated with me a lot was when she says, I’m not here to compete, I’m here to create. That’s one of my favorite things, because it’s true. I’m a cheerleader for other photographers.

00:14:33:06 – 00:14:57:16

I wish them all well. I hope they all find their love, but I’m going to do my own thing and whatever I do, it’s like, we should say, whatever they were doing has no bearing on what my goal is and my plan is. And that’s it. I’m not here to compete because, you know, I push myself a lot harder than anyone else could be, you know, towards me. That’s just how that’s just it.

00:14:58:05 – 00:15:04:13

Absolutely, absolutely. OK, so then you decided from there two thousand nine, you’re going for it. So what happened then?

00:15:04:16 – 00:15:38:09

Yeah, that’s it. Well, has started it with a little tiny home studio, and within a year, maybe even less. I outgrew that. Like, so fast. And that was it. I knew I needed a bigger space. And you know, that’s kind of how I fell into where I am now. But what I did, you know? And knowing like where I came from, the photographers I had worked for. And knowing, you know, I know I’ve been a member of the, PPA, you know, for years and years and years and going to Imogene USA and things like that hearing from other successful studio owners.

00:15:39:05 – 00:16:11:25

They always said that you have to have one thing that you can count on, and I knew this was a lot of wedding people and their thing was that, you know, people are always getting married, so you’re always going to have a wedding. Well, I hear it. I do not love weddings. I’ve done them. I’ve I, I love the couples. I wish them well. It’s not my thing, but what I did for. Security, I established a base, so I have my contract work, so I knew exactly how much money I needed to make.

00:16:11:27 – 00:16:56:16

So first off, I know my numbers and then I figured out, you know what I needed to do to hit those numbers every year. And then after I did that, then I transitioned from what was a high volume model to a basically like a third would be considered high volume, you know, and then a third is portrait and the third is branding and you know, all those clients. But that’s the thing, though. I have that security and then what I did was that with all of my dance goals and that’s what I do the most, I transition those dancers and and the parents because they’re also business owners, their family, people, and I’ve transitioned them into portrait clients.

00:16:57:00 – 00:17:09:09

So if you know me from my dance work, chances are you’ve looked me up for everything else and that’s what they want. People want, you know, and I don’t want to say they want the best. So here I am. But guess what? They want the best, and here I am.

00:17:11:26 – 00:17:32:14

So a lot of people, I think, have that similar, you know, drive that they want to convert clients into a different type of shoot. So maybe as a family shoot session and they want to convert to a glamour session or whatever. So let’s talk a little bit about that. Even even if you’re listening and you don’t necessarily do dance photography, let’s hear how you how you do convert them.

00:17:32:28 – 00:18:05:18

Well, it’s basically just keeping your name in front of everyone. Obviously, social media and different marketing, going to the network groups, things like that, you know, you just always have to stay relevant and stay in front of people. But like for specifically for my dance families, they’re seeing me a couple of times a year, so they’ll see me for a recital where they’ll see me for their troupe pictures of the if the girls are, you know, or boys, but if they’re on the competition teams. But when they’re receiving their orders, you know, I’m always putting information in there.

00:18:05:20 – 00:18:40:00

And then I also on my website, you know, a lot of people sign up for the emails and we’re sending out newsletters, things like that. And that’s kind of it because I will say this, even though most people will think that the dance, the work that I do because I photograph about, I don’t know, twelve to fifteen hundred dancers a year. And, you know, it’s like a lot of people might say, OK, well, that’s just super high volume like soccer shoot. Well, no, it’s not like a soccer photo shoot, because the price point is way higher than a typical high volume sports thing.

00:18:40:09 – 00:19:12:21

And every single dancer I photograph, even if it is for a handful of minutes, I’m going to make sure they are fantastic, that it is beautiful. And the I mean, I bring every all my studio knowledge, all my lighting knowledge, everything. I bring that to them when I’m working on their recital, you know, let’s say their costume things and every single image needs to be perfection. And then when the parents are getting that and they see how beautiful it is, then from there it’s just it’s an automatic thing.

00:19:12:25 – 00:19:45:10

They automatically come to me and they say, Oh my gosh, Michelle, you know, we want our family done like this or, you know, my business needs headshots or whatever it is. It’s just they know, they know I’m the person. It’s like, I’m always in front of them. My name is always in front of them and and it doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t hurt that I have a dance model team and those dancers, they love sharing things and talking about master accredited photographer Michell Santelik.

00:19:45:15 – 00:19:59:22

And, you know, blah blah blah. And so people here hear that and they right away, you know, see, this person’s a professional. She’s accredited, she knows what she’s doing, and that’s how that’s how the conversion is. So it’s sort of organic.

00:20:01:10 – 00:20:01:25

Yeah.

00:20:01:27 – 00:20:22:18

And this really validates when we talk about how you have to get out from behind your computer when you’re trying to use it. If people don’t know you, if you weren’t out in the community, if you weren’t talking with people, if you weren’t interacting, then you probably wouldn’t have as many clients as you do. And I’m not saying you have to be a super extrovert to do this, but you have to at least show your face and get out there.

00:20:23:00 – 00:20:59:18

Absolutely. It’s like I know a lot of photographers who are scared to death of going to network meetings and standing up and saying who you are and where you’re located. And, you know, they always say, that’s your 30 second pitch and you should be able to do that. And if anything, I mean, it’s just an introduction and just to be out there and talking and really like with a networking. And I think you may say this too with your branding course. And then you said that, you know, you do a lot of networking meetings. It’s like when you walk in the room, every single person there is your client, everyone needs you, everyone needs your service.

00:20:59:20 – 00:21:28:15

If you are a business. Chances are. You absolutely need someone who can photograph you beautifully photographed for company and photograph your product, you know, help you design content, help you put together brochures and whatnot. It’s like we have all of those, you know, all of the things in our wheelhouse. So why not? So I mean, if you know what you’re capable of doing, then you are very capable of serving everyone in that room. And if you’re confident in your work, then you know you can do it.

00:21:28:27 – 00:21:55:12

Yeah. Just like when you were saying, you know, way back with PPE, everyone was wedding photographers because there’s always going to be a wedding, right? Well, that’s kind of how I look at personal branding. People who are entrepreneurs or business owner, you know, people who run a business, they need photos, always. So it’s kind of like my my easy way of saying yes. Business owners always need photos. So to me, that’s much better than having industry weddings every weekend of my life in the summer.

00:21:55:24 – 00:22:28:19

I love it. I love it when someone phoned in and they, of course, the first thing they want to do is ask, You know, how much is just a headshot? And you and I both know it’s never just a headshot. So, you know, we start talking. And then by the end of the conversation, it’s like they’re booking for maybe a fifteen hundred or twenty four hundred dollar branding session, all inclusive design work as well. And everyone’s so happy at that point because why they’re busy and we know how to do this. So you know more for more

00:22:29:00 – 00:22:45:06

Yes, making people’s lives easier is definitely something we do when it comes to. And that’s a point that I often make, too, is people stress about what they’re going to post on social media and what phone they’re going to put on LinkedIn. As a business owner, we all know how stressful that is and if we can help them make such a difference.

00:22:45:20 – 00:23:08:25

Oh, trust me, even my assistant Izzy, I joke and call her vice president in charge, a tick tock because that’s what they do. They love making these videos and things, and you’re not going to see me. Well, never say never. But I’m probably not going to be the person getting on Tik Tok and lip syncing things. But they are so, so let them do it for the studio. Let’s talk a

00:23:08:27 – 00:23:17:19

little bit about that because you said you have a dance, a dance team. Yeah, that’s that. Yeah. Well, it’s a little bit about that. Is that similar to like a senior model team?

00:23:18:01 – 00:23:50:25

So the way this works, I should say this. I give so much credit and gratitude for my friend Rebecca Shepherd. She is a great senior photographer. She’s in Kansas. Yeah. And the way she does her senior team is phenomenal. And and that’s not the traditional way that I was even used to working for other studios. So when we started talking one day, you know, because yes, I do photograph seniors, but it’s not my heart.

00:23:51:04 – 00:24:28:12

And one day she said to me, it’s like Michell, if you could photograph one thing every day forever, what would it be? And I said, Well, dancers and she was OK. Like your recitals like, oh, no, dancers here in the studio, in my artwork, in beauty light. That’s what I want to do. So she laughs and goes, All right, well, let’s do this. So then the whole vision there became to create an exclusive team of dancers. So a new team every year to be featured in my artwork, you know, showcase for all my marketing and here for my studio and the work that is submitted to the Portrait Masters Awards and accreditation.

00:24:28:24 – 00:25:03:18

And while in other industry publications and whatnot. But what we did then am I do this dance model team? So the one I have now is the second year last year during the pandemic. I launched it and people would have thought I was crazy. But this, I just felt that at that point that people needed to see artwork, they needed to see the creative things happening. Things were so dark and sad for a long time that I think the general population needed to see that there is still goodness happening.

00:25:03:24 – 00:25:07:09

And maybe you needed it to, you know, and your dancers and yeah,

00:25:07:11 – 00:25:43:25

yeah, I definitely did. And last year’s team, what we did, you know, very much inspired by and I know every Sue Bryce education member knows this. There’s a gorgeous picture that Sue did. I can’t think who the model was, but someone and they were covered in clay. And I love that. Like that was one of the first shoots that I saw of hers hosted in SBT, and I just fell in love with that. And so we did something similar and I told them, You know, OK, Darlene’s, you are dancers who have not been able to move for over half a year.

00:25:44:07 – 00:26:25:22

So I’m going to cover you in this clay, which it was a mixture, but on the cover you in this clay and now you’re because you’ve become statues, but now you’re breaking through. And then that all that crack, you know that the correctness of of the clay that was on them, the crackly, I guess I don’t know what the word is. The. Sure. Anyway, it looked like they broke out. So now they there are no longer still because they’re dancers, and that was the first shoot we did with the dance model team last year and that sent the big a message to not just them, but the whole community that was paying attention to what we were doing, that something big was happening because I truly feel and this is just me.

00:26:25:24 – 00:26:59:28

So every day I wake up and I start with a state of gratitude. And I think about all the things I’m so happy for and and what I want to accomplish and that kind of thing. And then when I think about my work, you know, my artwork and what needs to happen next? You know, the thought is always to exist in a state of creativity. And, you know, like exist in a state of creation. And when you are in that energy, you start attracting people that also have that positive energy and want to be involved.

00:27:00:07 – 00:27:31:04

So that’s really what happened with last year’s team. Now what was interesting is that this year, there was so much interest in it. I mean, we had so many interviews, so people, the dancers and the youngest age. I will take us 13 and the oldest is 17, 18 years old. So these are the youth dancers, and most of them have been dancing since they were two years old, so they’re pretty, pretty advanced. They had to apply, come in for an interview.

00:27:31:13 – 00:27:57:14

And after discussing everything, I whittle it down to the six that I wanted the most. And from there, you know, we started really creating like this year’s team. I have Izzy and Lila, Madison, Matty Grace and Ellie, and these girls are fantastic. I loved getting them together, talking about, you know, the different work that I had planned throughout the year because it’s a yearlong thing. And

00:27:59:10 – 00:28:31:00

what was nice is that this year we are first shoot. We launched it with Jazlane Gonzalez. She has a thing called onset with is lane, and she was the winner or one of the winners of America’s next top model, Tyra. So Jazz Lane and I got together, you know, came in, we had one night where it was all about empowerment. And then the next day we did an editorial shoot and the girls had such a great time. And if anything, they learned more about themselves. And it was so wonderful.

00:28:31:02 – 00:29:02:04

I mean, it’s kind of interesting that the entire dance model thing started as a way for me to create work. And like you were saying, like for my heart and for my soul. And then what it’s turned into is a way for these dancers. You know, it’s an education for them, really. It’s like they get their empowerment and I get to teach them, I get to guide them. I get to show them how to find the light. And, you know, like when we’re working.

00:29:02:08 – 00:29:25:25

Yeah. So when they do that and they can see themselves, truly, that’s when I think they really know who they are and what they’re capable of. It’s such a beautiful space to be in, and it’s I mean, it’s so fulfilling. Like for me, it’s my entire heart. So I do put a lot of that into my dance model team work, which we’re actually getting ready for our next shoot. It’s going to be pretty awesome.

00:29:26:11 – 00:29:29:15

So there’s obviously you do it because you love it clearly.

00:29:29:18 – 00:29:32:05

Guess you feel your passion? Yeah.

00:29:33:00 – 00:29:49:10

Now, tell me, how does this help your business? Like, are these girls, you know, talking about you? I know you said they like to post the work that other dancers coming to you because they see your work. Like, do the does the team get all of this for free? Tell us some of the logistical part of it.

00:29:49:21 – 00:30:20:09

OK, so it is a paid thing. So there is a membership fee and there is a year end purchase and that’s a bunch of printed work. But for that, they’re getting probably triple that in the amount of images that I’m posting and that they do receive that. So they are receiving a lot for being on the team. And of course, the experience this is it’s an exclusive thing and it’s nice to be a part of that. But as far as like marketing wise for my business.

00:30:20:15 – 00:30:55:18

So yes, the girls they’re always posting, so they have their Instagrams, the TikToks, you know, they’re sending things all the time, you know, tagging the studio, sharing, it’s getting conversations going. You know, I start getting more followers because of it. Then a lot of girls from all the different dance schools, you know that at that point, they’re seeing it. So I should say this at the end of every dance year from Graphi. Actually, I use them and then print a beautiful magazine. So each of the dancers gets this and also the dance schools that they come from.

00:30:55:20 – 00:31:26:00

So they have these. So the dance schools get these beautifully printed magazines, the large ones. And they get to look through them and see the work, so moms are always see in this, other dancers are always seeing this. And of course, they all go to different schools, so they’re talking about it in the different schools, too. So it generates a lot of conversation that way. And you know, the thing is, is that I do have people reach out to book solo sessions for their dancers because they see the work that I do.

00:31:26:12 – 00:31:59:05

And maybe that’s what their daughter wants, and I’m so happy to do it. I truly I truly come alive when I’m photographing a dancer. And may it be with my team, which is dedicated to my artwork, or if it’s in here for a solo and it’s about them, you know, at that point, it’s completely about them. I’m still I’m still holding the space for them, still directing them. They’re still seeing themselves in my work. And that’s why they come to me. And it’s just, I mean, talk about something filling up your whole heart.

00:32:00:03 – 00:32:07:13

Yeah. OK, so tell us a little bit then about your pricing structure for these individual dance shoots.

00:32:08:09 – 00:32:40:04

Well, if someone comes to the studio for a solo shoot, it’s exactly the same as my other portrait work. I mean, maybe there’s different products they want. Maybe they want an album, or maybe they want like a beautiful nine up or we put together a gallery wall. But if it’s a solo and you’re coming here, it’s still a two hundred and fifty dollars session fee. It’s still hair and makeup. If they need it, it’s still about two and a half, sometimes three hours with me. There are other services someone can add on.

00:32:40:09 – 00:33:16:08

They can bring in like, let’s say they want to bring in one of their dance instructors. They can, or I will bring in a dance instructor as a technical director to make sure everything is perfect. And I will stress this. OK, yeah. And that’s my new and that’s just that. They come to the studio and they get treated just like anybody else. I photograph maybe a little bit more love because it’s dance and my heart goes crazy, but I’m still going to take care of everyone, you know, and maybe, maybe I photograph them for a few minutes in their recital costume.

00:33:16:20 – 00:33:46:24

And that’s the difference, because see, some people will say, Well, Michell, if you’re photographing them for recital, what’s the difference between that and then spending so much more, which is what people like to say to come to your studio? And they say, Well, at recital, I only get a handful of minutes. And even though it’s going to be beautiful and I’m going to treat that dancer like they’re the only person in the room, it’s a lot different versus coming to the studio. And now you’re the only person that I get to take care of for a two to three hours.

00:33:47:04 – 00:34:11:25

It’s a different experience. And even the products themselves, the the photographic paper, I use, the wall portraits, the stuff I order up from graphi. All of that stuff is special to the studio versus when you’re getting things for a recital, that’s a different type of paper altogether. You know the printed portraits, but it’s still good quality. It’s still good. But when you’re here at the studio, I’m making sure I’m really, really taking care of you.

00:34:12:07 – 00:34:18:04

All right. And then so do you have specific packages or is everything a la carte? And do you have a session fee?

00:34:18:28 – 00:34:50:10

Well, the session fee for a solo here is 250. And then from there, like our packages, I mean, I really do like pushing for the folios, and my average sale right now in studio is about eighteen hundred and something. Yeah, sometimes I really think it’s time to bump that up a little bit. But I mean, it’s consistent and you know, that’s good and great. Yeah, yeah. So so people will be getting the folios or again they’ll do a nine up or an album.

00:34:50:12 – 00:35:04:00

You know, a lot of people will say, Well, it’s like I have other children, so I don’t want, you know, one whole wall dedicated to my dancer and we’ll say, OK, well, then how about we do a beautiful album? And that’s it. They’re so happy at that point.

00:35:04:18 – 00:35:11:12

So as far as products, do they come within your packages or is that something that they have to purchase separately?

00:35:11:24 – 00:35:20:05

Well, with your at the studio again, that’s where you’ll get like the folio. Like so many in age, you know, eight, 16, 24 inches

00:35:20:10 – 00:35:37:13

I just want to make sure everyone’s super clear. So you’re understand so your packages come with a portfolio box. That is because some people don’t know what that means. Like to us. It’s like, Oh yeah, folio box. Well, OK, yes. But some people might just be learning. Can you just explain what that is and what it comes with and that sort of thing?

00:35:37:23 – 00:36:09:20

So when you’re at the studio and you’re coming in for a session again, so it’s two fifty for the session and then you get the three collections, so you would get eight prints and they would come on beautiful. I like using silk paper. They’re matted and they come in the beautiful folio boxes from graphi. Those are my favorites. So you can do eight, 16, 24. I do the nine up gallery series. That’s just I mean, that’s just gorgeous, everyone.

00:36:09:23 – 00:36:39:02

I highly suggest you have one of those printed and put in your studio, especially if you are going to photograph something like this, a dancer because it’s a beautiful series you can do. And then other than that, my wall portraits, those are a la carte. Or I’m very happy to design a collection wall. But usually the collections like that, like for a wall gallery, that’s usually when I’m photographing families. It’s it’s not just one person.

00:36:39:17 – 00:36:49:09

All right, Michell. So as far as photographing actual dancers, I guess, are there any tips you have for the listeners around that in general?

00:36:49:22 – 00:37:23:14

OK, so I would say for definite, if you did not grow up as a dancer and if you’re just getting into this, you definitely need to take some things into consideration. First off, safety. So let’s just assume they’re coming to your studio. You need to make sure that you have, you know, have them warm up, have a space for them to warm up properly before they begin their moves in front of your camera. You need to make sure if you’re using different backgrounds on the floor, that is properly secured because the last thing you want is for someone to slip.

00:37:23:16 – 00:38:00:00

So you definitely want them to feel the floor and tell you if it’s OK for them or not. Then, as far as you know, dance itself, you need to be familiar with ballet. You need to know the, you know, the foot positions, you know, first through fifth position, you need to know what a proper turn out looks like. And that’s, you know, when the foot is literally turn out from the body, the leg is turned out. You need to know the difference between a beautiful pointed toe and a sickle foot. I mean, because it could be the most beautiful dance move in the world, it could be.

00:38:00:02 – 00:38:33:13

The face can be perfect. The hands can be perfect. The body, if their foot is sickle, I mean, that could end a career right there, because that shows that they don’t. You know that first off, you don’t know what you’re looking at. So I mean, you can look this up. You know, they’ll have all types of examples online of a beautiful foot versus a sickle foot, which is wrong. But I know that I mean, there’s certain moves that you know you’re going to watch the feet for a beautiful relevé. And that means when they’re going up high or a tondu, an arabesque, something called an attitude.

00:38:33:20 – 00:39:09:15

I mean, these are all beautiful moves that you can start with and go from there. But I will say this, and this is something that I’ve helped in, in a way mentor to other photographers that are getting into this. You need to know that dancers are used to a director or a choreographer, and you need to be that for them. That’s a great point. Well, exactly because a lot of people will say, you know, like, Oh, I had a dancer in today and I told them, OK, do your moves? Well, it’s like, OK,

00:39:11:05 – 00:39:43:21

well, it’s like, OK, well, you want to go ahead and do that. Point to doing that already. Yes. Like, can you do that twirl thing again? Oh, trust me, I’ve made up some crazy names before like, Oh, can you do a creepy crawly? And they don’t even know what that is, and I’d have to show, and it’s really hilarious, but I know what I’m talking about. But anyway, it’s like you. You have to hold the space for them. You have to be the director. You have to. And this is where obviously a consultation and whatnot, you know, with them prior to the shoot, you know, should be done because you need to know what you’re going for.

00:39:43:27 – 00:40:15:13

But if you have connection and direction, then you gain their trust. Because when that happens and you know this and other photographers know this and even Sue Bryce talks about this, a portrait is happening in such a close space to each other, and you have to hold that energy for them and they will understand what you want and like when I’m working. You know, it’s like you’ve developed that relationship with them. You’re guiding them, you’re showing them.

00:40:15:24 – 00:40:47:10

And and when I’m when I’m photographing someone and I will tell them, you know, OK, you know this, you know, whatever the move is, and I’ll have them do it and I count for them because now we’re both on the same timing. Then you need to know that. But when you’re really working and you have it. If I can tell a dancer who might be getting a little hard on themselves or think you’re frustrated, I will stop and I’ll say, OK, darling, take a look. And that’s when I’ll show them. Like, I’ll say, OK, here’s the move, and this is where you’re landing on the count.

00:40:47:18 – 00:41:25:06

So we have to do a little bit more prep here. And here’s the land and they’ll say, OK, and it’s like, if you can do that and encourage them and show them, these are all the things that you have fantastic. Now we just have to watch that foot or watch the hand or what the expression, whatever it is, they can see it, you can do it, and when you’ve got it, it’s it’s so like there’s been times where we’ll be working and they’ll move is so fantastic that when we got it, I won’t be able to speak because I’m getting choked up and I just shake my head and grin and then I’ll show them the picture and when they see themselves on the screen.

00:41:25:14 – 00:41:58:00

And if they stop and put the hands to the face, you know you did it. You know you did it. And at that point, it’s like they that’s when they just I don’t even know what the word is. I mean, they they just come out so alive. And again, it’s about trust. It’s about trust and directing them and connecting. I mean, I would say if anything like if you can gain that, if you can. It takes practice. I mean, if you’ve never done this before, it takes practice. But when you get there, if you can do that, it is fantastic.

00:41:58:14 – 00:42:00:07

Is absolutely my heart.

00:42:01:00 – 00:42:15:05

And what a gift to give to them, especially if they’ve been dancing their whole lives. And I know dancers can see themselves on video and I’m sure they don’t dance so they can see themselves. But right? Beautiful gift for them and for their family to actually have that kind of frozen in time.

00:42:15:07 – 00:42:38:23

And it really is, because if you’re photographing them from the time they are, you know, young, just young dancers and they go on to become professionals, they see that progression. And it is amazing. But again, I even photographed professional dancers and you know, they walk in and I would still never say, OK, so dance.

00:42:40:21 – 00:42:47:28

It’s like, you don’t do that. You really need to be the director. And again, hold that space for them.

00:42:48:12 – 00:43:08:08

Yeah, that’s great advice. Very cool. Very cool. OK, so if you had your choice, I know when Rebecca asked you what you would do is, is that what you would do full time? And do you think that there are enough kind of dancers out there to do this full time? Or do you like the variety of personal branding and other things you do?

00:43:08:24 – 00:43:46:27

I do like the variety. I do love. I do love when the business owners come in and we get to talk about their business and get all excited and you just see them. That just, I mean, it is. You see them come alive and they’re so excited and you want to help them and. And we’ve had our own journeys on building our businesses. So I would never stop doing that stuff. And I do love my what I would say, my regular portrait work. And there could be a woman coming in for more of a glamour look that could be, you know, a couple, a family, you know, just because we do, we love it and we know they’re going to have that forever.

00:43:47:08 – 00:44:17:12

But as far as the dancers go, I will say this. I mean, you and I were both at Portrait Masters and I was very, very happy to be front row when Darren Vera took the stage. And so he’s standing there in third position like the whole time because he is a dancer. And when he was photographing his wife, I had tears like I literally had tears. And it was it was so beautiful.

00:44:17:14 – 00:44:49:01

And and it’s interesting because when you see that relationship happening and it’s all his creativity is happening, it’s like your heart just fills up. And that is when when you are projecting that energy to them and they feel it and they sense it. And then it’s coming back to you. And now it’s this beautiful thing that’s happening. That is what I would do all the time. I would love very much to photograph dancers here in my studio in moody light.

00:44:49:08 – 00:45:34:00

Actually, I was talking at that portrait masters to Felix, and we were talking about the lighting series that he does. And he asked me, it’s like, Well, Michell, well, what is the goal? And I said, to photograph dancers is a moody light. That’s exactly what I want to do. And he’s like, OK. And then we talked more about the lighting series and whatnot. But I mean, that’s really it. It’s just creating that and wrapping them with the light and making this emotional picture. I mean, I think for me, from the time I was a kid, from the time I was working with Ted, it was like I showed up there to work because I wanted to create something like I knew I wanted to create something more than, I guess, the standard portrait.

00:45:34:05 – 00:45:42:21

And and then that was it, finding something that I love finding my niche. I mean, that that was a gift. It was truly a gift.

00:45:43:01 – 00:46:03:21

Definitely. Well, and just as I know, too, if when you mentioned Darren. Yeah. If for people who weren’t at the portrait masters, if you’re a member of Sue Bryce Education, if you click on courses and scroll down to conference speakers, he it’s 2019. You can watch that whole thing and see. Michell talking about because it truly was just magnificent.

00:46:04:18 – 00:46:06:23

You may even see me in the front row crying.

00:46:08:08 – 00:46:42:12

Well, there is one thing that he said. And Rebecca actually was sitting next to me and I’m like elbowing her because he says in there something to the effect of he takes pictures until he loves it, like when he’s photographing a dancer at his studio. He doesn’t stop until he’s happy until he loves it. And that is the truth, because, you know, you know, when you got it, it’s this moment that happens. And may it be like me dancers, or may it be whatever genre it is, you love the most.

00:46:42:28 – 00:46:59:15

It’s like, Don’t stop. Like, don’t settle. Don’t say, Yeah, it’s good enough because there’s no such thing as good enough. It’s what is going to make you so happy and proud that you did this for them, and they’re going to have this forever.

00:47:00:17 – 00:47:32:13

It’s so true. And I was actually going to lead into next was I was going to ask you a couple of questions that I always ask of each of each episode and one of the things, well, we’ll come back to that one because that’s number four. I got to go in order. But that is really great advice is is to truly just you have to know when you got it, like all of us, I think as photographers during each shoot, when you get it, it’s like, Yes. And then going out of it, you know, it’s it’s really cool. It’s a cool feeling. Yeah. And I appreciate you just sharing all of this.

00:47:32:15 – 00:47:37:19

And yeah, it is so great when you find something that you’re so passionate about. So I’m happy that you have that.

00:47:37:28 – 00:48:18:14

It is kind of funny because of web designer. She was talking to me and she was doing my website and she’s asking me all these questions. And it’s not that I don’t like talking about it because I absolutely love talking about what I do. But she is not a photographer, so it was so funny because she’s like, Well, tell me about it. How much do you love this and what does this mean to you? And my response was, Hand me a camera, let me show you. And truly, I think that’s the goal. I think for other photographers, I mean to for me to be able to, you know, show them it’s like, that’s that’s it, it’s like you’ll understand when you see it because there’s that moment that happens.

00:48:18:20 – 00:48:20:25

And if you do it right, it’s so fulfilling.

00:48:21:10 – 00:48:31:25

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, on that note, let’s get started on the final question that I ask and no one is what is something you can’t live without when you’re doing a photo shoot?

00:48:32:11 – 00:48:39:02

Can’t live without. Let’s say I need my Starbucks and my assistant Izzy. She is my right hand man.

00:48:40:17 – 00:49:10:25

That’s truly it’s like all the equipment you can you can think of. Most of us always have, but I always say it’s great to have somebody assisting you that. Can jump in. Move a light, you know, move a v flat move, whatever they have to, you know, adjust a toe, adjust the outfit so that it does not break your connection with the subject. And that’s something that I did like when I worked for Ted and even Ray.

00:49:11:00 – 00:49:37:15

But when I worked for Ted, he we got to the point where he would like motion and I would have to know what that meant. And all these years later, it’s like when I’m working, all I have to do is look or just make a hand gesture, and Izzy will jump in and move aboard and do what I need. And so I would have to say I absolutely cannot live without the ace number one assistant because they truly make my life easy.

00:49:38:06 – 00:49:47:23

Yeah, assistants are magical. If you have a good one. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. I love that. OK. Number two is how do you spend your time when you’re not working?

00:49:48:18 – 00:49:49:05

Working.

00:49:51:09 – 00:50:22:13

When I when I watching a movie, I’m working, when I’m reading a book and working when I am just kind of sketching things. I’m like, I’m constantly thinking about what do I want to make next? And so I don’t mean like, there’s a big thing where people think that you have to be hustling at every minute. I don’t. I need to breathe. I need to think I need that moment of peace. But I’m thinking that that’s where I’m thinking that’s where, like, maybe in the quiet, that’s where all the ideas happen.

00:50:23:06 – 00:50:38:16

So that’s that’s definitely, you know, a little bit of rest, a little bit of self-care. I like chatting on the phone with my girlfriends and, you know, that’s again, the ideas. That’s where they come. I’m always thinking, Hmm, fantastic.

00:50:39:08 – 00:50:43:00

OK, number three is what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:50:43:21 – 00:50:56:08

OK, so inspirational quote Howard Thurman. Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.

00:50:57:09 – 00:51:04:03

That’s very true. It is. Especially, I mean, and for people who aren’t creators, we need creators to create things

00:51:06:02 – 00:51:17:18

like looking at them and experiencing them and. Yeah. Awesome. All right. And number four, I know you touched on this a little bit, but what would you tell people who are just starting out?

00:51:18:24 – 00:51:58:09

I would tell someone starting out to really think of your why, like, why do you want to do this? I would tell them to, you know, spend the time and of course, a little bit of money. You know, it’s an investment in yourself, but get education. I mean, especially, I mean, with the Sue Bryce community and I absolutely love everything that has come from being a part of that community, the education, the conferences. Spend time around, the people that are like minded and can help you get to that next level.

00:51:58:11 – 00:52:18:13

I mean, everyone is learning. I mean, everyone at every level is learning. So to have great conversation and to be inspired by everyone. That’s that’s a that’s a very good thing to have that community and have a bond with other people. You know, definitely that would be there would be something right there so I can make sure that you have that.

00:52:18:21 – 00:52:21:09

Mm hmm. Yeah. It’s life changing

00:52:21:15 – 00:52:54:00

it really is. I mean, even during the pandemic that first week when we all had to shut down, it’s like at first it was shock. The next week we cried. And the third week we got to work and I started my own mastermind with some other photographers. And every Monday for that entire year, actually, even now, every Monday we log in, we touch base, we talk about business. We talk about life. We talk about everything. And it’s nice to have that community to keep you going.

00:52:54:13 – 00:53:21:00

And that’s definitely something I would tell someone starting out, you know, to not be afraid to reach out to someone that has a lot of experience. And I mean, again, I started when I was 14 years old. You know, I’m forty two now. So do the math. I mean, I literally grew up in the industry and everything I’ve ever learned. I mean, it would be a failure to not pass that on to someone. So reach out. I mean, reach out to people.

00:53:21:10 – 00:53:54:02

I agree with you and definitely finding your tribe is really important, but also reaching out to people and is, yes, it is very important. I want to I want to recommend something, though, to people. Don’t just reach out and say, Hey, can I buy you a cup of coffee and pick your brain? I’m like one. I don’t drink coffee and two, I hardly have enough time for my family and my best friends. You know, I’m always prioritizing, so make sure you’re bringing someone value like, I had someone reach out to me and say, Hey, I’m wondering if I can watch a session.

00:53:54:04 – 00:54:02:01

And that’s just not something I do because of, no, you. I want my clients to be comfortable in that sort of thing. But you know what? They said, I will clean your studio

00:54:04:02 – 00:54:08:03

and I’m like, Oh, now we’re talking, you know? And it’s

00:54:08:05 – 00:54:08:27

like, Wow,

00:54:09:19 – 00:54:24:20

if you can bring not that I want someone to always offer to clean my my shit. Like, that’s not what you know, but if you can find a way to bring value to someone. That is what is going to get someone attention. Not saying can I pick your brain and buy you a cup of coffee?

00:54:25:05 – 00:54:58:25

Well, it’s it’s one thing if you, you know, meet people and you’re talking, it’s another. If you have not really met them and you need them to mentor you because there are a lot of us that actually do that. And, you know, because it is your time, it’s time away from family. It’s time away from your other business. I mean. And if you truly are willing to do the work, it’s like, OK, you know, then then you can obviously get education, but get yourself a mentor in the genre that you want to work with.

00:54:59:10 – 00:55:15:04

But yeah, it’s like I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me and be like, Hey, Michell, can you send me your pricing for a dance recital? Like, No, it’s like, like, wait a minute, you don’t just you don’t just grab that and.

00:55:15:10 – 00:55:25:10

Right, right, exactly. There has to be an even. It has to feel like an even exchange. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t pay it forward because Lord knows I love paying it forward. One hundred percent.

00:55:25:14 – 00:55:27:04

Exactly, exactly.

00:55:27:09 – 00:55:39:21

But I’m usually paying it forward to someone who I feel some sort of connection to. Mm hmm. Who has tried to find a way to bring me that value or something? I don’t know how to explain it. It’s just.

00:55:40:03 – 00:56:15:16

Well, I’ll I’ll say this even with my assistant, Izzy, you know? Yeah, she’s been an assistant. But then eventually she did come to me and tell me, just like Michele, I love this. I love everything about what we do. And I truly want to learn. She’s like, Can I be an actual apprentice? And I told her, You know what? Yes, yes. And it’s like, it’s the the mutual, the even exchange. I mean, she’s bringing she does work for me and she is learning and she puts in that time.

00:56:15:18 – 00:56:50:02

So the more I educate her, the better she is for me. I mean, it’s skill she can take on her whole life, and I’ve had other assistants that work, you know, have worked for me and then moved on. Mind you, into other genres or other career path like one’s a nurse, one’s a teacher. But everything that they’ve learned from me, they were able to take, you know, take that with them. So I mean, and again, that goes back. I know some people say old school all the time, but that goes back to my upbringing because back in the day, people would have to.

00:56:50:04 – 00:57:11:12

If you wanted to learn photography, you either needed, go to college or go work for a studio. There was no creative live, there was no Sue Bryce Education, there was none of that. So I think I’m extremely fortunate to have that upbringing in the industry because there’s so much to be said for having a one on one educator.

00:57:11:27 – 00:57:19:00

Yeah, there is. Definitely, yeah. Well, this is some really great advice and solid points. So yeah, I appreciate that.

00:57:19:06 – 00:57:20:21

Well, I like being a voice of reason.

00:57:23:17 – 00:57:26:14

Well, thank you again. Where can people find you if they’re looking for you online, Michell?

00:57:27:03 – 00:57:40:15

Michell Santellik Photography Dot com is my website. They obviously have my Facebook. I’m on Instagram, I’m M Santelik Photography and Tik Tok, the real diva. And that’s my assistant. She’s the one that does that.

00:57:41:11 – 00:57:52:06

Nice. That’s awesome. Cool. Well, thank you again, and I will see you online in the group and hopefully in person. That’s an from Athens, if we can, that would be amazing. So hopefully I will see you again.

00:57:52:13 – 00:57:54:13

Absolutely. Thank you.

00:57:54:16 – 00:57:55:18

Awesome. Thanks, Michell.

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com