Conquering Fear with Rodney Pedroza

October 29, 2021 Blog

Clubhouse Conversation: Rodney Pedroza

In the latest episode of the Portrait System Podcast: Clubhouse Edition, Kevin Conde and Ashleigh Taylor chat with portrait photographer Rodney Pedroza about how fear is an inevitable part of running your own business but that there are ways to overcome it so that you can still move forward. Rodney talks about how when he met Sue Bryce back in 2015, she challenged him to raise his prices to a sustainable level. He did so and had a client who was willing to pay and expressed how those pictures changed her life and the way she felt about herself. But even then having tasted success, Rodney was overcome by a paralyzing fear that stopped him from being able to move forward for a year.

Be sure to listen to the whole podcast to hear how committing to a meditation practice that brought him awareness of his negative self-talk changed everything for Rodney. As well, Rodney talks about how creating a to-do list gave him a road map that brought him from paralyzing self-doubt to a successful photography business.

As always, Ashleigh and Kevin bring great perspective. One thing Ashleigh shares is how just having the willingness to step outside of your comfort zone to follow in the footsteps of someone else you have seen be a success can make all the difference. One thing Kevin shares is a very important reminder that it takes a long time to master everything one needs to in order to become a skillful photographer and a successful business person. Letting go of the fear that we are not achieving fast enough can free up the energy needed to make progress day by day.

To hear more from Rodney, check out Overcome Your Fear with Rodney Pedroza.

In this blog, you’ll find some of Rodney’s gorgeous portraits, links to his website, and answers to some bonus questions.

Join us live every Friday for Clubhouse conversations and get answers to your questions! Just search “The Portrait System” in the Clubhouse App and follow us there.

Get to Know Rodney Pedroza

Q: When did you first come across Sue Bryce Education and how has it affected your career?

A: I came across SBE on Facebook back in 2015, and back then, dreaming of being a professional portrait photographer was no more than a pipedream. I used to work in Social Housing in Central London.

Back then, I tried nearly every genre — events, weddings, pets, children, babies, products, houses — you name it, I tried it. I was the guy with the camera — “the Photographer” who couldn’t charge, and when asked, I never knew how much I should tell people.

Well, this all changed when I met Sue, and I was challenged to raise my prices! To see the value in my craft, in my service, in my own time.

HOLY MOSES!!! I don’t recognize myself from the first time I set my prices!!

Can you believe, I whispered, it is £90 per image. (I used to charge £50 for all the images.) I didn’t even know I could whisper!

Now, I am GOOD with someone telling me I am really expensive because I am worth every single penny!!!

I am just as grateful for someone just buying one image, as well as taking my top package!

I simply say, “Money is always coming my way.”

Q: When first starting out, many photographers hit roadblocks on their journey to starting their business – whether feeling their equipment isn’t good enough or feeling they need a studio to start a business. What roadblocks did you encounter and how did you get over them?

A: When I look back at this time, the most obvious block I had was this guy I know, the man in the mirror, me!  So many insecurities, fears, and so little faith in myself!

REJECTION was the biggest one! I didn’t want to be rejected, and it’s still the same now. The only difference is I let the feeling come and go, and then take action anyway!

I don’t let the fear paralyze me anymore!!!

I wish I could give you a magic formula to overcome this feeling, but there is one thing which will — ACTION. Take any action, any form of action!! This daily actions will create a momentum in the long run. See it as training! You don’t expect to be able to run marathon straight away. You’ve got to train every single week without fail! Train for your marathon!!

Q: How do you feel about your current work/life balance?

A: So far, it hasn’t been great, but I recently learned a big lesson which I missed for so many years, and it may help you in the long run.

The thing is that when it comes to our business, we are really organized and treat time with a different respect, but when it comes to spending quality times with our loved ones, it is then left to chance and “see what happens.”

These past few months, I am treating my personal time with the same respect as my business one, and it has been a life-changing experience for me.

Q: What (beyond money) has owning a business given you?

A: My self-value! Owning my voice, knowing that it is not perfect. It is perfectly imperfect! And that is me!!

And you know, this may sound cheesy, but Loving Myself more! I love who I am, and I am getting to know myself better every single time I overcome an obstacle.


Q: What is your favorite advice that you’ve been given along your journey that has helped you the most? 

A: My favorite advice has always been “I didn’t come this far to get this far!”

This is my personal mantra and every single time I get stuck, or blocked, or feel that this is it (we can be so dramatic sometimes), this reminds me that I can continue and go further.

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Rodney Pedroza of Rodney Pedroza Portraits

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Click Here to Read the Podcast Transcript

FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors. 

This is the Portrait System podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one, navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Hey, everyone. Your Clubhouse episode today with your hosts Ashleigh Taylor and Kevin Conde is with Rodney Pedroza.

00:00:33:26 – 00:00:51:21

Rodney is back again for a follow up to talk about how he built his business and truly conquered his fears and moved forward. Breaking through the blocks that he had all of the things that everyone deals with when they’re building their business, you don’t want to miss this one. It’s such a great one. Here is Rodney, Ashleigh and Kevin.

00:00:52:23 – 00:01:24:26

Welcome everyone to the Portraitist podcast Clubhouse Edition. My name is Kevin Conde and I’m here with my co-host Ashleigh Taylor. If you’re not familiar with the portrait system where a portrait photography podcast that is powered by Sue Bryce Education, Nikki Closser hosts our Monday episode, and Ashleigh and I co-host our Clubhouse Edition, which is live here on the Clubhouse app every Friday at Noon Pacific, and then our episodes are released on Thursdays. You can tune in on your favorite podcast app by searching for the portrait system. Ashleigh, how are you doing today?

00:01:25:11 – 00:01:42:26

I’m good, Kevin. I’m excited to be back here with you for another episode, and I’m excited to introduce our guests today. Rodney Pedroza. Hey, Rodney. I don’t know if we lost his audio first. I can’t, but I can see he’s here with us, so.

00:01:43:00 – 00:01:45:16

Yes, I’m so sorry. So sorry.

00:01:45:26 – 00:02:16:24

That’s ok. That’s Okay. Well, before we jump into the interview, we always just want to let the audience know that the first 30 minutes? Kevin and I will interview Rodney and then at the halfway point, we’ll open the conversation up to any questions that those of you listening live might have. So if you’re joining us live and you’re new to Clubhouse to ask a question, you will just hit the hand icon in the lower right hand part of your screen.

00:02:16:26 – 00:02:33:24

And then we can bring you up on stage where you can state your name and ask your question. And we do really love audience engagement. So if you think of a question and it’s too early, just jot it down so you don’t forget and then raise your hand when we open it up. All right, Kevin, I’ll toss it back to you. No problem.

00:02:34:11 – 00:02:45:18

So, Rodney, we love your interview with Nikki and we love you. We love hearing about how you conquered your fear. You gave it a name, Lolita.

00:02:46:17 – 00:02:48:07

Ha ha, Lolita.

00:02:50:13 – 00:03:16:20

And you talked about how you quit your day job and you went full time into photography. We wanted to dive a little bit deeper just to know how you conquered your fear, as well as the practical things that you did to get enough clients to keep you afloat in photography. So let’s let’s go ahead and start there. When you first started out, you had said that no one would sit for you, not even your sister.

00:03:18:14 – 00:03:34:08

You said that you had to pay to start out. Was this correct? Was this enough for you to start your portfolio to get paying clients? Or did you have to continue to try to convince people to sit for you?

00:03:35:13 – 00:04:17:04

I still have to convince people to sit it for me. And you know, actually, I just before actually say something that I glad. Thank you so much. When you say, say, I conquer my fear, I wish that was the case, but that Lolita she has has never go and she’s still there. She sometimes just screams louder a few times during the week. Sometimes she does it, but she’s still got that bugger is going to be with me throughout the whole journey. So just to answer your question regarding and in terms of how I started when I started, I just pretty much I was just being people upset to be photographed by me because I didn’t have the skills.

00:04:17:13 – 00:04:52:05

However, when I start showing the images on my Facebook at their time on my personal Facebook, I have friends that were like, Oh, hold on a minute, this guy knows what he’s doing, but what’s happening? I became the guy with the foto, with the camera. So I was invited to birthday parties, to weddings, and I were always taking photos. But it was like more in a sense of finding my for this sense of what do I want to photograph? So it took me a long time to figure it out, to be honest.

00:04:52:10 – 00:05:22:18

It was in an easy one year on to with someone say is like, how do you define your style? I think for me was trying and making mistakes, doing a wedding and literally overexposed in everything I’m realizing is like, why am I going to do? And then I learned the biggest trick that all photographers know is when something looks so horrible because he has been overexposed, make it black and white, and never

00:05:24:03 – 00:05:38:01

done it. He’s like the number of times like we are. I don’t know if I’m the only one who has done it. But I remember and they were like, really one of the black and whites like because I want the wedding to be timeless. And they were like, Oh, thank you.

00:05:40:20 – 00:05:43:25

Little did they know really why they

00:05:44:16 – 00:05:51:08

don’t look that good. And he’s like, Oh, if the colors look bad, you say let me see what that looks like in black and white. Yes. Yes, I’m being artful.

00:05:54:05 – 00:05:57:17

Oh, I’m so glad I’m not the only one.

00:05:59:02 – 00:06:18:25

So you paid the models. So now people wore seeing that work. So you’re saying that now due to having the paid models now people were seeing what you are potentially aiming for, what you wanted to accomplish. And then they started coming out of the woodwork to be able to want to sit for, you

00:06:19:12 – 00:06:51:25

yes and no, because that was before I met surprised. So that was before actually, I made the surprise application on everything. The people that I was attracting. I mean, I was charging at the time, like Kevin, like 50 pounds and I still have many people at. Anything the is too expensive about only comes with all the images, and it’s like, can you make it 30? And I would be like for the whole day is like, OK, deal. So I used to give out all my time, all my images.

00:06:53:25 – 00:07:26:22

I will be honest when I look back and I see those images, I would never use a single one of them. I think actually for me, what changed, And what change was when I made soup rice back in 2015 on. I met her in France to be a workshop in that. I mean, I remember that was the first time in my life when I heard that people were charging a session fee of over 300 pounds and their packages were just starting at 12 grand. Twelve hundred by the lowest.

00:07:26:24 – 00:07:59:28

And I was like, No freaking way. There’s no possible, you cannot do that in the UK. No one is going to pay for that. The only people that get paid, the amount of money are wedding photographers, the only people like nobody else. I remember actually Sue challenged me is like, I dare you. And I was like, You know what was the worst insult? One can say to me, they can say no. So when they came back to the UK after the workshop, I they say there’s say, You know what? This is my first time

00:08:00:00 – 00:08:34:00

Like, You know what? I want to say? I have this. Fuck it anyway. I have no kids in this job. I was like, Fuck it, let’s do it. So I remember I made up like, I didn’t know I could make it the lowest it could be. The was nine hundred twelve hundred and eighteen hundred the biggest package, so I could go beyond that because I was like, No one is going to pay for that. So when I have someone that so I went to suprisingly actually these amazing shoots and obviously all the mentors were helping me out to do everything.

00:08:34:07 – 00:09:20:05

But when they suddenly started showing that they may have actually a few people that came to me and Rodney, I love what you’re doing and is like, Yes, I know, OK, what are you doing now? Because for me, less is more because I love the backdrops I love. Like simplicity. Like sometimes people just focus on the person, nobody else but people’s eyes, expressions. So when they came back actually from that, I decided, you know, let’s go for it. And then someone pay me eighteen hundred for twenty five images, and I was like, What? And that was my biggest part is how I say to her this is three thousand five hundred pounds, as I do now will be like, OK.

00:09:20:26 – 00:09:51:23

Because that went down. And when the woman was paying me Kevin, amazingly, she was like, Rodney, thank you. It was more like, Oh my gosh, she’s like, These are gold images. It’s like, I go into this every single one in my house and they want everyone to see it. And it’s like I even I told my husband to literally build a wall for me because she was going to put it in her bedroom. She was like, No, no, no. They’re coming to my house. They will be the front door.

00:09:52:02 – 00:10:22:20

And she basically what happened to her. She suffers like these a problem with the skin. They don’t really know the name of it, like she gets red skin or something like that. So she’s been hiding from the camera for twenty five years. The last time she was photographed was on her wedding. Twenty five years ago, I I’d say I hated every single one of those images. So for her it was something else, and I was like, Oh God, I mean it. So then in that moment, I found something really powerful for me and his purpose.

00:10:23:05 – 00:11:02:26

My wife is like, OK, why am I doing this? It’s like, Yes, I love taking photos. But they gave the woman gave me was like, Rodney, you gave me something. They knew it was there. I just couldn’t see is like, What if I start doing this for all women is a how amazing that will be the way I could get him? Hey, as a professional standard, was it his profession standard? Yes. Yes. The professionalism. I think it’s the professional standard, but not only that by empowering women, they’re like feeling something else they see in a different light.

00:11:03:03 – 00:11:17:03

A new version of themselves that I know everyone was with Sue Bryce. We know that that gave me actually a biggest, the biggest purpose. So that was the tipping point for me when I started charging more. It was from that point when I was challenged.

00:11:17:23 – 00:11:47:15

So Rodney, was it the workshop with Sue? You said that she got you the challenge you to raise your prices? Was it after you raised your prices that you were then confident enough to ask for those prices? Or was it with the session with this woman who displayed her images throughout her home that you finally realized that I deserve to be paid because of the experience that I am giving to my client, those sitting for me?

00:11:48:13 – 00:12:21:08

So when they decided to charge those prices for me was then more like, I feel confident. I was like, as I say, is like, let’s give me a go and see what happened. We never realized it was possible is like, hold on a minute. This may work for me. Something that was really powerful. Is like Yes, Sue challenged me to say to my face like it was a raised up. Those prices give it a go. You have nothing to lose. But for me, something that was really powerful.

00:12:21:15 – 00:12:57:06

You saw on the world show I made so many of the mentors just admit Nikki. I made a show now. I met Shauna. I just did so many of them and they were like doing it. So for me, I have this belief is like someone else is doing it. Why I cannot do it myself, like if they can’t, we can’t. So for me, that’s always been like, I need to see someone doing it. So it would be like if they can do it, I can do it as well. So I want to know. Well, actually, it will be confidence in the sense that I may say just cause I love about confidence.

00:12:57:08 – 00:13:13:04

Yeah, sure is like confidence is. I used to believe that were so feeling so confident would be like, yes, they feel confident I can do that. And I love this world because you say confidence is the decision to try.

00:13:15:08 – 00:13:35:15

Self-doubt is the decision not to. So for me, it’s like, OK, it’s like cocaine if I even if I give it a try. So that for me was what I will call confidence in the sense that I was like I was willing to risk to get myself out there and be rejected, which is my biggest fear, to be honest.

00:13:36:09 – 00:14:15:19

I love that because I feel like you just said something that we have heard from other guests that we’ve had on before. But it’s like a really important throughline that just having the willingness to step outside of your comfort zone and try something new and just see what happens and kind of trust the process, especially when you’re following like subways, education and like the business model. And just trust that it works because it worked for other people is so major. And I don’t think a lot of us that have had success stories would be where we are if we hadn’t done exactly what you did, which is just take that first step of trust.

00:14:15:24 – 00:14:45:09

So, yeah, I absolutely love what you just said about seeing others take that leap and just trusting that it could work for you. What do you feel like after you had that experience where you were validated by this woman and it was like, OK, this, this is possible. This can happen. What did you then do to get the momentum going? Like, how did you fill your calendar with more clients?

00:14:45:29 – 00:15:17:15

Ashleigh. I so wish that I could tell the other beautiful story that my calendar was full, but I’d be completely the opposite. I got so freaky this scared about. I got lucky they didn’t do anything for a whole year. I was like, No, I cannot do this. I’m literally. I know that’s how I is really stupid. But that was my experience. Normally people will be like, Yes, let the moment to me go for it. I was like, Oh shit, OK, this happened.

00:15:17:20 – 00:15:48:21

Is that they think that not are my stuff when I make it up in a hole is that no, I don’t know what he’s got. And I went into full fear and I didn’t do anything. I literally went like, I cannot do this anymore. So it is crazy. That’s what he said. And down goes down to the fear of rejection that has always run my show. And Lolita Lolita will tell you that I, well, this was a lucky one. It is going to happen again, is still going to happen again. And then because for me, this was like a moment like it is, go for it.

00:15:49:27 – 00:16:23:16

Let’s give her a go and let’s try it worked. OK? I don’t think I would be able to replicate this, and I know it sounds silly and it sounds stupid. But that was that was my journey. That’s what I have to do. And it goes back to my pay, my pain of rejection because I didn’t want to be rejected and I still feel it. But the only difference between then and now is that I let the feeling now I literally come and go, and then they take action anyway. But fear not, fear paralyze me altogether.

00:16:23:18 – 00:16:46:10

That was how strong he was. That will be like, No, no, no, I cannot do this like, no. And I was like, No, no, don’t go through the gate. It’s like a tap into something. And he was so beautiful. I just didn’t want to touch it again. So I wish I could tell everyone is like, Yes, we want to do. So like for me, it was like, was the opposite. Wow. Well, I’ll still talk about if

00:16:47:17 – 00:17:22:00

I was just going to say, I think actually, that could be so helpful for people to hear because I think we have this like myth that success is this, you know, you have a chart and it’s like that kind of straight diagonal line going upward. And I think there’s like some meme too on the internet that it’s like shows like a circle line, like a squiggly lines like circles back and goes down in like, it’s not straight at all. And that’s it. It really is the truth. It’s not a Disney movie, right? It’s like, you know, I’m so I love your.

00:17:23:03 – 00:17:54:21

I love that your story is real. But I guess one thing that I would love to know is like, I mean, that’s a pretty big transformation to go from someone who fear runs the show and paralyzes them. I mean, some people will stay in that for their entire life to someone who is now able to know that the fear is there, but let it go and like, let it kind of have its own voice and essentially ignore it and still be able to go forward.

00:17:54:23 – 00:18:06:12

So what do you think you like? What was the work that you did on yourself? Was it journaling? Was it therapy? Was it listening as self value talks? Like, what did you have to do to get to that point?

00:18:07:05 – 00:18:39:09

I was sitting and thank you so much for saying partially because for me what I realized, it’s like, OK, I have this skills. I. Can do this, but clearly something I have something that’s blocking me, and he’s not externally it’s internally, so I yes, doing a lot of meditation like for me, like it became my morning, it became my my day, like my sacred hour, like the first hour of my day. It’s like do mostly to nothing, all my phone.

00:18:39:11 – 00:19:12:27

I don’t check anything. I will be me and me, and nobody else and my best friend told me, is like Rodney, all you need to do is increase your awareness. You don’t have to change anything. You don’t have to do anything. You just need to become aware of what you’re doing when you’re doing it. Because, for instance, I will give you an example how I numb myself. I will. Just by literally hugging those strawberries and cream is my favorite one, and I will just started watching Netflix nonstop and I will just be watching binge watch and I will be tired.

00:19:12:29 – 00:19:44:03

I will just carry on an ice cream ice cream ice cream the chocolate sun. I will just numbing my feelings because I didn’t want to feel anything. I just wanted to be like, No, no, this is too uncomfortable. So watch, you watch it all these like just become aware the way you’re doing it and just be with that, just being without feeling and see what is coming from. Because we all have these traumas, we all have these belief systems is rejection and not good enough. And that one is still comes like even after all these years.

00:19:44:05 – 00:20:16:22

After all that training, the freakin belief system is still kind of like someone will post something nasty on my compaign or my Facebook campaign, and I will be nine and I look good enough. But then I will be like, You know what, Pedroza? Just take enough. Yes, recharge. And then you will be able to carry on before that will paralyzed you for a long time. So what I advise people is like if they experience something similar a same as me, I don’t think actually, I don’t know, do become aware of what you’re doing and what you’re saying.

00:20:17:07 – 00:20:48:29

We don’t realize the negative self-talk that we’re constantly doing to ourselves is insane. Is crazy. We make a mistake and we are the most horrible and nasty people to get to. Just talking about myself here is like the way we just say, and it’s like, we just have no patience just for me. I want to be able to master everything within a month or two months or six months. And it’s like, I have never done this before.

00:20:49:07 – 00:21:22:26

I have never run a business in my whole life until a few years ago. I used to get my salary in the same month, on the same day, every single month at the end. Sometimes I will work really hard. Sometimes I didn’t and I still get my money. These day was completely different. If, like your bank account will reflect the work that you’re doing, and if you are in that little self-pity like poor me which actually, there’s just far too many times and I still go there.

00:21:23:08 – 00:21:28:10

If you say that their bank account is going to reflect exactly how you’re feeling,

00:21:29:09 – 00:22:03:08

you know, right, that is such a good point is is people, you know, we all get in the mindset of, we need to do this now, you know, as part of the 90 day challenge there, I see a lot of them constantly posting like they feel like they’re not getting where they need to do. They’re not succeeding. They’re not seeing the reflection in their bank account, as you said. And it’s like, how how long have you been doing this one? It’s like they’ll say, it’s like, Oh, I’ve this is my second time around and said, you can’t.

00:22:03:10 – 00:22:05:17

You’re not going to master every aspect

00:22:07:06 – 00:22:41:24

in the matter of one round two round of the 90 day challenge. It takes time. It takes, you know, posing in itself is his own mastery. You know, you don’t figure that out in just a handful of months. And I think that now people need to really internalize and let go of that fear, realize that they’re going to spend time and then put in the work. Day by day, every day is to get to that stage, you know,

00:22:42:16 – 00:22:48:09

I think to Kevin, Oh well, Rodney, I have a question for you because I think to you, like what you’re saying, Kevin is so important. And

00:22:50:01 – 00:23:25:15

also, I think sometimes what can come in is like comparing your journey to someone else’s. And I don’t know if you had that experience. Rodney can maybe speak on that. But I do think like sometimes you can see another photographer like, maybe have what appears to you to look like overnight success or an easier time or something. And then you can start feeling really bad about yourself, like, well, why did they just start a month ago? And they are charging $5000? And I’ve been doing this for four years and I’m in the same place, so I don’t know.

00:23:25:17 – 00:23:27:07

Rodney, can you speak to that at all?

00:23:27:28 – 00:24:06:12

I been there for so long, for so long. That is just insane. It’s beautiful people, nice people that I know. And there was this frickin jealousy and I would be like, they just started these like, what’s wrong with me? He’s like, Look at them. They just been doing this actually for two or three years, and they’re doing really well. And look at me, I struggle in this and haven’t been able to get a single client to have any one book. Everyone is telling me to speak. I have thought so many times, like so many times, and I think the only way to get out of here is like, get out of your own head.

00:24:06:14 – 00:24:36:12

It’s like to freaking start doing the work because I realized that when I was in those days, I was complaining more than I was actually doing the work. So it was looking for reasons to be like, Look at them, blah blah blah. All that negative stuff. I wasn’t doing anything. It wasn’t like it was right in our face and probably wasn’t like I was trying to become a better photographer. All I was doing was we did like freaking wingeing, actually.

00:24:36:14 – 00:24:45:15

When I meet people like that, I struggle because they remind me of my old self is like, Come on. Like, seriously, like what? I think?

00:24:45:28 – 00:25:13:04

Yeah, I think that’s such a good point to you is like if anyone listening is in that point of comparison, sometimes the best thing you can do is just like unfollow or get off social media for a while. Take a break. Like not saying don’t market your business, but just try not to like look at other people’s accounts, because sometimes we’re too busy looking at other people instead of keeping our head down and just doing the work that we need to be doing in our business

00:25:13:23 – 00:25:53:03

is like when you’re trying to think it’s actually when you’re really trying. And that’s I thing, actually, that’s the difference when you’re no doubt. For me, the biggest difference, though, when you’re genuinely trying like, that’s actually my favorite quote is the money in the arena because the guy is just talking about, you Know, you’re failing It’s normal you’re making mistakes because we all do it and we will continue doing that from time to time. That is just that’s life. But is the fact that you’re trying on, you know, by the end of the day, you gave your best when you’re in a space, you were never going to look at anyone else comparing yourself by just looking for inspiration.

00:25:53:11 – 00:26:27:07

And that’s two different energies to seeing someone work on is like then it does beautiful, does good is like one day I will be able to do that to be like, what they do doing. I say That’s not great in La La La Land. Internally, you’re feeling jealous because you wish you could do it. So for me, it’s like when you’re in this space of trying and yes, even trying to single a single thing a day. And if it’s just one thing is that is still business building the momentum. But what I used to do a lot before is like, I would try to do two things at the same time, and I will accomplish none.

00:26:28:04 – 00:26:31:06

And that’s why I will get stuck in my head now.

00:26:31:08 – 00:26:48:04

I was going to ask you if I was going to ask you about something that you had said with Nicki about how you were talking with your partner and they told you make a to-do list, and was it like, OK, I’m going to make a to-do this.

00:26:48:13 – 00:26:48:28

You know,

00:26:50:19 – 00:26:54:08

I feel so embarrassed. We don’t don’t worry, I feel sorry, but you know.

00:26:54:25 – 00:27:29:01

But listening to that, it didn’t sound like it was a to do list. It was more of a kind of like a mind map, kind of, um, how do I get from point A to point B? Because it’s to do this to me is, you know, wash the dishes, you know, do the laundry for you. It sounded like, OK, I know where I want to be. What are the steps that I need to accomplish to master to get better at? To get to the two to that finish line, that end line of success.

00:27:31:06 – 00:27:34:24

Can you can you tell me a little bit like what did you have on that

00:27:35:05 – 00:28:09:05

to you live means that you made before? Actually, like the recent I laughing about myself is the fact that when my partner Daphne age is like Honey, amod, let’s do this today. And this is like, No, you don’t get like, I just I fought her so hard for so many months, and eventually I just get tired of my own voice. It’s like, OK, let’s do it. I still have so much resistance, and it is something for me. What was the road map is like removing everything that you believe that you know, in your head and put

00:28:09:21 – 00:28:41:06

Everything on paper. So new to me is like, you’re dumping all your ideas, you’re dumping all the concepts and things that you need to do or you want to do. And just put it on paper, once everything is written down and I know it sounds so simple, but to me was like a mind blowing exercise when everything was there like each me is like, they really are pretty much like, everything is kind of out of your head, so your mind is clean because you clearly because your mind is going into this loop again and again is, I need to do this.

00:28:41:08 – 00:29:13:15

I have to do this. When I’m going to have time and you’re always playing that look game. So when you just literally with everything on that day, just start playing these game, which again and people who are really organized will be like, Well, now I need to start prioritizing what was important. So it was like, this is probably why because this will get me clients. It’s like, they’re like, fell desperate. They will be like, Learn how to do Facebook ads. Their non priority will be, I want to find clients.

00:29:13:25 – 00:29:46:20

So yes, this will help me. But this is not going to get me crying, face learning, how to do Facebook as well. So it became this roadmap of priorities to like. This is extremely important. This is important by people who are organized and they non important things. So when they separated into three categories, then they focus on the one was the priority. One will get my ship to go fast. So this is the second one will be get clients. OK, this is important base know the most important thing because the business can operate without one.

00:29:47:02 – 00:30:19:05

And the third one was the things we all want to do. We want to like, create these five. But if you don’t do it, nothing is going to happen. Having a new backdrop in my studio painting three or four more is not going to make any difference at all. So that was my roadmap and a gate. I know on simple dumping everything out of your head put everything that you need to do, and it prioritizes three columns and then choose one. And that was the thing. Yes, choose one and focus on that one.

00:30:19:07 – 00:30:55:17

Do not literally. For me was I will not do anything else until I complete that one, and then I will move to the second one. And then the third one, what happened to me for what happened to anyone doing this will be like it will build momentum now. When I started doing that, then I start building momentum was OK, I got this, I got this, and then I said, OK, I do this before this, let’s recreate it again, and then I start actually getting clients. From that point, my is the ad shown is they they they do it, they will create that.

00:30:56:01 – 00:30:57:03

No, they we can.

00:30:57:20 – 00:31:21:07

So, Rodney, I love the To-Do list, and I also wanted to know what would you say if you had to just pick one marketing activity that was the game changer for you to bring in clients? What would you say that it was? Facebook Ads. Really? Can you say more?

00:31:22:03 – 00:31:52:24

I absolutely Facebook ads as something they’ve been fighting for so long to let the moment I got it and I was like, invest in like eight times per day. I started getting so many clients from that. But the bank is like, You just find someone who knows what they’re doing. It will tell you how to do it once and then it will be easier. But I was happy to be before I just did it. I guess waiting there at the end or when I was doing it, wasted like I was like, I said something and eagerly to see your results.

00:31:53:10 – 00:32:23:11

And then I found out at Facebook that you can contact the facebook ad managers if they speak to people directly. They work on Facebook at all Facebook managers and they work with Facebook directly, and they will help you set everything up for free. So it’s just it’s just so easy. Yeah, and it was like, why nobody told me that? But you have to learn the hard way. So for me, once all Facebook ads, no way support. Anybody knows that. That’s for me, like literally what poor people people say.

00:32:24:06 – 00:32:31:18

So people like a will have big folks that will be amazing for me will say I just looked and that just worked for me. Awesome.

00:32:32:21 – 00:32:43:21

I notice that we have someone who wants to ask a question. The name on here is Poetic. I don’t know if that’s actually your name or it’s there. Oh, that’s such a cool name.

00:32:45:15 – 00:32:46:25

Poetic. I love it.

00:32:48:03 – 00:32:51:15

And maybe it’s worth it. Yeah, that’s beautiful.

00:32:51:24 – 00:33:33:15

Thank you. It’s great to be on stage and thank you for the great tips and for sharing your journey. Rodney it’s been incredible listening. I’m a I’m a I’m a photographer based in the UK and I’ve just started out. And at the moment, I think I know my style, but I’m kind of just trying different things in terms of styles of photography. And I’m wondering if when you’re starting out, if you ever had to say no to a project because maybe it didn’t align with what you liked or it’s you know what, what what are the reasons to say no to a project as opposed to just accepting that,

00:33:34:13 – 00:34:05:20

you know, actually, I believe in something. I believe in energy. I truly believe in energy. And I love this. Quote by David Hawkins, Dr David Hawkins and Save Energy will introduce you before you do or say anything. So I believe in that. That’s like, that’s my mantra. And if you feel something in your gut, something that is going to like being we, you listen to it. And I do believe women in particular have something that we guys do not possess, or that’s true as like we you not have this fear.

00:34:06:12 – 00:34:37:12

We do not have this sixth sense that women have like I’m jealous of that. But you guys feel it and you will be like, What’s going on? And you will be like, No. So trust your gut because that’s your instinct. Now will be your guiding light. And if you see something because there will be things that you will be like, yes, they want to do that, and there will be things that you will be like, do I really want to do this? I have money will be good, but if there is something in there that doesn’t feel right, that means you’re right.

00:34:37:17 – 00:35:04:23

Don’t do it because when you want to do so, it’s like, I will give you an example. Like if you’re in a club and so many say by two different drinks and someone and you may like they call, you will be like, Yes, that’s OK. This one, there will be someone else that will come to your drink and you will be like, No thanks. And it will be like, literally, you like, you don’t want to speak to that person because you have the 6th sense. You have that gut.  Trust it. Why it left to trust me when something doesn’t feel right is more right.

00:35:05:25 – 00:35:07:19

That’s great, thank you so much, Rodney.

00:35:08:10 – 00:35:12:22

Hold up, hold, I answered your question. Yes, no, that’s helpful.

00:35:13:01 – 00:35:14:06

That was helpful, Rodney.

00:35:14:08 – 00:35:24:02

Thank you so much Poetic. We also have a question from David. David, if you want to call yourself David Franco.

00:35:24:23 – 00:35:39:09

Yeah. Hi, David. Hey, Rodney. Hey, David. Have you ever thought about creating an app or something with just your voice as a motivational speaker? Oh my gosh. Right? Yeah. Like, I would

00:35:41:03 – 00:35:58:00

say this like everything, it’s just like, I’m listening. Like, I mean, it’s such a compliment. Like, I literally just love hearing you talk. It’s just like, you’re just so motivational and I love just like everything you say. Thank you, David.

00:35:59:24 – 00:36:27:00

I have never considered doing anything like that for me will be like the only people that want to listen to me would be my mom and my wife. That’s literally like nobody else. It’s just so like, I literally, I mean, I know it’s just, yeah, it’s like you’re used to hearing your own voice. But I just I was listening to this whole time, and as you kept talking, I’m just like, you know, Rodney’s has has that voice were like, if he tells me to do something, I’m like, Yes, let’s do it.

00:36:30:00 – 00:36:55:22

You know, it’s funny. You said it as I listen to Rodney, and if I look at his Instagram, I’m like, Rodney just has a way of speaking to people that maybe know just how much his voice, his mannerism, his laughter. All of that goes into the experience of shooting with him being, you know, being a subject in front of him and his ability to make people comfortable, you know.

00:36:56:04 – 00:37:02:14

Mm-Hmm. So I I totally agree, guys, you’re saying there, David. Anyway, that’s all. I’m so glad.. I’m so glad you couldn’t see my face.

00:37:04:14 – 00:37:04:29


00:37:08:19 – 00:37:13:29

So take it because I miss you and I’ll see you soon, OK? Yeah, I’ll see you next year.

00:37:16:15 – 00:37:28:29

So with that, said Ronny, I’m with your voice and everything. Yes. And make you wonder what is an experience like with you inside of your studio space?

00:37:31:15 – 00:37:46:22

Explain to me how it is that you walked someone through your process just because your energy is just so charismatic, so you draw people in. How do you get people to come in and sit for you and be comfortable?

00:37:47:21 – 00:38:18:01

You know, actually, there has always been the I have found are really easy because I say to people is like, my job is really simple is to take down all those layers, a.k.a. belief system. Remove every single one I always imagined. I just give one two three four five. And when it comes to the fifth one and they say that every single pllayer and I mean, it is like when it kill the number five, I going to find the inner child and we all possess that inner child. We all have it.

00:38:18:03 – 00:38:48:10

We were kids. We love and all you have to see is I see kids playing in the playground, and if they don’t know it, they just become good friends and they’re like, they just want to play. So we all love play. And I say to them is like that’s the intention of today we are going to be played and they are going to find that inner child in there because I will, because I always do. And when they find her, it’s like she’s going to want to play with me.

00:38:48:12 – 00:39:20:24

I was going to be play. And that’s what I do with everyone. I just like we took play because I yes, there’s so little you can be before, but we will be playing and you know, that’s going to happen. And they’re like, Are you ready to play? Yes. And that’s literally what I do with people because I want to play, because I love doing this is like I left my job for stability and everything to be entered into something I want to live. Life for me is that I don’t really know if you had a new holiday. It’s called. Holiday, the occasion.

00:39:20:26 – 00:39:52:28

I think it’s complicated and it’s like every day feels like a freakin holiday because I get to do what I love and I just get excited again. They get excited with the next to be followed by photograph. Like 90 percent of my friends are females, five percent of guys. But I’ve seen guys cry when they see the images and they are. The reason why is because they were playing. They just forgot this all they then it is like, Yes, I don’t smile or I look this way and they just see beauty.

00:39:53:01 – 00:40:03:05

And these like, How could you not get excited when you know that that’s going to be the results? So guess that, in a nutshell, is what I do with people.

00:40:03:27 – 00:40:32:25

One of the things that I kind of I agree with you and that is with with as a man, obviously, you know, we’re not marketed to, but coming back from the portrait masters from the shootout just having the opportunity of stand in front of the lens of so many amazing photographers and just seeing myself as image comes out and oh my God, we’re playing, we’re like, Hey, you know, be goofy, joke around and have this, have fun

00:40:33:03 – 00:40:34:17

and just have fun.

00:40:34:29 – 00:40:43:00

That’s definitely what I experienced, you know, sitting in front of people as I’m taking images. I even sat for Ashleigh for a few shots as we’re sitting

00:40:43:29 – 00:40:45:13

That was no pressure and

00:40:47:07 – 00:40:47:22


00:40:47:24 – 00:40:51:25

Like he hands me this Nikon, which I like. I don’t shoot a Nikon.

00:40:54:04 – 00:41:11:13

It feels so weird. You know, like for me, when someone gives me a canon, I’d be like, What? What the hell am I supposed to do with this is, it’s like, What do I do? What button do I  press? Is this over here?

00:41:11:20 – 00:41:21:12

I know it’s like funny. I was like, No, no pressure or anything. And I just have like an audience of people watching you. Do you think it’s cool? I’m sure it’s going to turn out

00:41:23:05 – 00:41:23:20


00:41:23:22 – 00:41:25:13

You’re like professional,

00:41:29:02 – 00:41:30:07

but it was really fun.

00:41:30:09 – 00:41:35:26

Yeah, the shoot out was really inspiring, Rodney. If you can have you come to one of the events

00:41:36:00 – 00:41:51:26

I I know we would love to be so jealous. We’re jealous. They me. And later we were like, We want to be there like we know allows us. Seriously? Oh, I guess not. Next year I get invited. Yes.

00:41:53:06 – 00:42:10:06

So, Rodney, bring us to where you are today. I know you said Facebook ads really helped your business on like what else is bringing leads in in a consistent way? Is it mostly social media, online stuff? Are you doing any networking? Is it a combination of both?

00:42:10:27 – 00:42:43:26

I social media, actually. For me, one one actually bring it a lot is Instagram. Instagram actually created a lot of awareness on sometimes LinkedIn like I hardly use it, but I realized at the beginning I was posting the wrong stuff in there and I was posting what I was getting like. zero recognition is, I think this is the wrong stuff to place in this platform. So since then, I just been placing my head shots and that’s getting inquiries, and I’ve been getting like a few from there.

00:42:44:06 – 00:43:21:18

But my biggest one has always been word of mouth. So when they photograph someone, that person will show their images and then they will be like, Rodney, I want some of stuff on. It is what I love and this is what people love. Actually, for my guys sitting there talking about me, like, yes, you going for the photos, you will get something else. You will get to me and I will be like, I don’t know what they mean by that, but it will be like ,You will come for the photos. Something else is like, don’t worry, you will get something else. If he will take care of you and they love that they are always getting that feedback for my clients because my intention, I always have to promise with it.

00:43:21:28 – 00:43:55:06

And I always say that my promise, number one, is you will feel good. That’s always my promise with every single client that does my priority before anything else. And I said recently, promise no one is so important is because it will fulfill promise number two. So it was like you will get to see the best images you have ever seen of yourself is like, why that happened is because I promise no one has promised. No one has been fulfilled because you feel good and when you feel good, what happens? Magic happens.

00:43:55:08 – 00:44:05:27

So yes, social media, Instagram, Facebook and referrals have been like, have been playing these important roles in my marketing.

00:44:07:00 – 00:44:19:09

First off, I just like to say I love the fact that you actually market with Le Noir. I was looking at your website instead of calling it boudoir, but it’s Le Noir.

00:44:20:02 – 00:44:21:13

Yeah, I don’t know how to spell boudoir

00:44:23:24 – 00:44:46:20

with the, you know, to some people, boudoir still has a certain stigma around it. You know of what the type of images are. So by you calling it Le Noir on your website, I was like that. That’s brilliant. It’s beautiful. It takes away the that idea of what boudoir is, and it shows it as something else.

00:44:47:06 – 00:45:37:00

Yes, it’s like you’re right it sounds beautiful for you say of course a French word for anything you say, it is beautiful but seriously. But it is like for me, the first one was I don’t know how to spell boudoir like so it’s like, No, forget it and I have no idea how I got to Le Noir. But I remember when they when I met Karen Marie and I saw her style, I was like, This is no fricking boudoir What is this? And a lot of this stuff goes when it’s incredible, like I never like Boudoir, and I was like, OK, now because I never make boudoir like it because I found it was the be looking for it is always a bit sharp for my tastes like is sometimes like too much in the face isn’t new.

00:45:37:13 – 00:46:10:21

There again, it goes back to light. It doesn’t feel right to me. And it’s like, No, I don’t want that because for me, I know this will follow advice like if I create the image, even if I do a nude and if I cannot show it to my own mother, then of course, this is of poor taste because my mom will be like, Why are you showing me that now? Initially, does my indicator, but I did one last year. I call it a. The first woman and she’s completely naked. And I remember I said who was up to mom is like, mom, look what I create.

00:46:11:02 – 00:46:33:18

Then she is like, That’s beautiful. And I was like, Yes, that means that does. There was the word looking for a place. Mom approved. Still, no one can believe it, but it’s like it’s important because it’s like you want to get a woman’s perspective. It is something tasteful. So, yes, yes.

00:46:34:06 – 00:46:34:21


00:46:35:29 – 00:47:06:23

one of the things I also wanted to ask you about is you said that you were getting a small and small number, but still you were getting referrals from linked in. Like how? For those that don’t know it much or anything about LinkedIn, can you tell us what is it that you’re doing? Is it like? Is it a Facebook style feed where people can see your information there? Is it? Are you actually marketing on it or how are you getting people to contact you via LinkedIn

00:47:07:14 – 00:48:04:07

is when I have posted images of my clients in LinkedIn. When I started, it’s like maybe the I actually is really how LinkedIn works. The two Facebook is like how Facebook used to work in the past. Like, what do I mean by that is like when people like, let’s say, someone like your photo by it that they don’t have friends in common that will appear in their faces that are having a friend. Like Kevin’s friends like this photo? That is how Linked In still works, or is it more organic if you tag someone now, the person that was tagged would see the images, but so many people? It’s like, I don’t know, it’s like the net is bigger, so you just hire a word missile targeting people only care is pretty powerful, and it’s just crazy how many views you get from that.

00:48:04:22 – 00:48:35:13

So I think actually is this by a good is a platform. They can only be used because I used to again, like I said, it used to be. They used to show so much inward instead of being this name was known like a field because obviously, if you like the images, so many people are going to realize that they like that. So no one would like it. So it will be like, like, virtually no one. But when they started using it for headshots of personal branding, I notice more engagement, and that’s how he’s been working so far, they haven’t invested a single penny.

00:48:35:20 – 00:49:07:01

There were only one they use in his Facebook ads. I do want to give one a try and quite certain it will be really powerful. So next year, when I open my personal branding on tools like more and they want to play with our club for an inquiry, I feel I feel really confident. If you don’t know, just try and play with that because these pretty powerful. I think if they are listening and looking for it, , like Microsoft to Apple, like Apple is a cool guy.

00:49:07:03 – 00:49:15:20

Like Microsoft is that you see the nerd is like he is if you want to be friends with. It will help your savings.

00:49:16:09 – 00:49:50:02

Yeah, I’ve heard so from other photographers, I’ve heard that LinkedIn has been more of a popular app for, as you said, personal branding, and I think it is so undervalued, so ignored by the photography community that, you know, personal branding has kind of blown up a lot within the last year with, you know, everyone starting their own businesses due to COVID, you know, job loss that people are moving into LinkedIn and they’re not having the headshots.

00:49:50:07 – 00:50:03:23

So it’s a great opportunity for people who. Who need them to see someone a photographer to be able to do all he can do it? Oh my God, look at his work, you know, fantastic. I’m going to book with him.

00:50:04:24 – 00:50:23:18

So that one is, I think, is like, that are the underdog, the one, the people just like nice. No, I get. Yeah. Yes. I think it’s nice how we all see it, because that’s what I needed before I had it all before years. And they never use it like ever since. I just, you know, why open it in the first place?

00:50:24:27 – 00:50:32:02

So with your let’s see, you’re on Instagram. That’s one that you’re focused more on now

00:50:33:18 – 00:50:40:05

on Facebook as well. And Facebook is where are you finding any specific kind of content is

00:50:41:24 – 00:50:44:14

resonating with the people that are listening to it?

00:50:45:18 – 00:51:24:29

You know, it was always interested and I don’t do it a lot. It’s like when I post, it’s like when I post my images and before and after and things like that. It does engagement. But when they start putting myself out there, like when they’re doing a media, when they are doing the talking, I always get so much engagement and I get so much from that. And I always find that strange because I don’t want to be in front of my camera. I want to show people what I do behind the camera. So that’s always been something that I find I found really odd, and I struggle with the ideas like which one to go because I love what David is doing, like David in front of it.

00:51:25:01 – 00:51:35:02

It’s like, Do I want to design and feel that comfortable doing that? So it is is something I still playing around having actually cracked the code for that one.

00:51:36:00 – 00:52:08:03

You know, writing as as David said earlier, I think that you’re missing an opportunity with your own personality. Yeah, of course people want to hear you. Your energy is just so, you know, over the mountain, through the roof and just fantastic. I think you should lean on that to really. Yes, behind the scenes are beautiful. Images are beautiful, but I think especially as a male photographer, they want people want to see your personality shine through with the type of person that they’re going to be being photographed by.

00:52:08:21 – 00:52:41:03

Yes, I think actually like, as I say, is like I always a struggle without consequences, like just face like you could expect to be like. And yes, I don’t know. I know it’s silly that people make fun of me when I say, I see the as like, you know, so he’s like, Yes, I want to what I said, actually, so much. So many people just need to be by myself to recharge. I think it’s the definition of  I need. Either way, I do need time for myself. But I still find this really is because it’s like wildly going to say it.

00:52:41:05 – 00:52:56:05

Like, Yes, there Lolita is there in the back of my head, like  who do You think you are reaching into your psyche? So many people. So I don’t know. It could be that what I said today is like not only passing God, I wish I could take allowed to let that Lolita go soon.

00:52:57:00 – 00:53:25:16

So Rodney, we are coming up towards the one hour mark of our conversation, and I wanted to ask you just a few questions you like. We’re talking about your confidence and just, you know, how you’re able to shine through if someone is just starting out and they see how you work and there and they ask you, how do I find my own confidence to get to where you are? What is your response?

00:53:27:28 – 00:54:15:03

I think actually it goes back to owning. For me, it went back to owning my voice. So for a long time, I used to hate my accent. I used to hate the fact that I live in England. I may sound like this. I don’t sound like really British, so I don’t stick the English language that was so long. That was a big one for me. I have this self-doubt in myself, and I believe that before anyone is 30 now, start working on your self, start giving the person more love, having more compassion with the person, the person in the mirror, or something that Mel Robbins from anyone who knows is like.

00:54:15:05 – 00:54:50:09

She wrote a book called The Five Second Rule. He is doing this beautiful exercise. This is called the high five was the high five. You literally wake up in the morning. And what most people do when we wake up in the morning before we brush our teeth, we look ourselves in the face and we’re like, Look at you, look at those boxes and your head, Oh, look at you. You put in a way that was like, Look at your skin. We start being horrible to ourselves. What you say that we do and I’ve been doing this for the past two weeks is like, you give yourself a freaking high five.

00:54:50:14 – 00:55:21:26

So you’re high fiving the mirror. So what happens with that? I just leave. That’s so good. It’s like we have been conditioned that every time you gave a high fives to someone, you cannot be nasty to that person. Actually, you just want to say, Well, don’t you give them like energy? You give the not so does the danger for you today. You give yourself a high five and then you look yourself in the mirror and then you say something that you need to hear that day and it all goes back to self.

00:55:22:05 – 00:55:54:26

I know other photographers here. We want to master our craft. We want to become a better photographer, better pollsters like all of that. And that will tell you this with time. All of you will become better. The more you practice, the better you will become. That is fun. However, the email work doesn’t work that way unless you’re doing daily practice on yourself. You’re going to be carrying that so you can become the best photographer in the world, and you will not be able to charge a single penny.

00:55:55:08 – 00:56:25:00

So start working on the self one. Start working on the little one, the little kid or girl that you have inside, so you give them love. I know sounds like a cliché. I know always sounds like something like Google and things like that. But trust me, cause I wish I have done that from the beginning and likewise certainly could have avoided so many painful months when I was feeling like a child experiencing depression and things like that, to be honest.

00:56:26:15 – 00:56:30:09

Rodney, there that’s I agree with that. And that is, yeah, beautiful.

00:56:30:18 – 00:56:33:07

That’s such great advice. Thank you so much, Rodney.

00:56:34:01 – 00:56:38:05

No. Thank you, guys. I hope you like to come to the this book for a whole hour,

00:56:40:15 – 00:56:41:00

you know?

00:56:41:18 – 00:57:13:01

You know, Rodney it has been an absolute pleasure. I love leaving it on that note. That was, you know, people don’t. Don’t do it. They don’t work on that part of themselves. Or they realize, you know, that their inner is what’s holding them back. It’s not necessarily the photography, not the lighting, the pose, it’s that they need to work on before they can step out into the world. Rodney, as we’re closing this out, I want to let people know exactly where to find you online stuff you can go.

00:57:14:17 – 00:57:31:03

Oh, yes, absolutely. Well, my name is Rodney Pedroza. I mean, Instagram, as Britney Pedroza with zed on Facebook. Also on on my website.. I think I have Twitter, but never use it, so that’s easy to find.

00:57:32:05 – 00:58:05:21

Well, there you go. Everyone, please, please go follow. Ron is such an inspiration, such a shining light for our community. And also, please make sure to follow the portrait system on Instagram and on Facebook as well. Also, be sure to check out our blog posts that are associated with our Clubhouse interviews at Sue Bryce You can also follow Ashleigh on Instagram at Ashleigh Taylor Portrait and you can find me as Pop Light underscore photography.

00:58:06:12 – 00:58:31:17

If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education, if you have any more questions for Rodney, Ashleigh, or myself, go tag us in a post in the SBE members only Facebook Group. If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, if you are interested in learning more about how it can help your business succeed. Ella with support at support@ And thank you for joining us, and we hope you can join us next week.

Also, be sure to check out the blog posts that are associated with our clubhouse interviews at If you are a member of Sue Bryce Education, you have any more questions for David, Ashleigh or myself go tag us in a post in the Sue Bryce Members Only Facebook group. If you are not a member of Sue Bryce Education, and you are interested in learning more about how we can help you and your business succeed, email Ella with support at

Thank you again for joining us and we hope you can join us next week.

Thanks again for listening today. And don’t forget, you can listen to either me or our special guests every Friday on Club House at 11:00 a.m. Pacific. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s