FULL TRANSCRIPT: Please note this transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

00:00:00:02 – 00:00:02:07

You’re listening to the Portrait System Podcast.

00:00:02:13 – 00:00:21:21

But you know, you learn from your mistakes, it’s painful when I am approached and asked, like, how to do this. I’m just starting out. I always say like start charging and don’t start with low prices, like you’re going to start all over again if you start raising prices and offer a new price list.

00:00:25:08 – 00:00:58:23

This is the Portrait System Podcast, a show that helps portrait photographers and people hoping to become one navigate the world of photography, business, money and so much more. We totally keep it real. We share stories about the incredible ups and the very difficult downs when running a photography business. I’m your host, Nikki Closser. And the point of this podcast is for you to learn actionable steps that you can take to grow your own business and also to feel inspired and empowered by the stories you hear. Today’s guest is Oleksandra Stelmah, and she is a newborn, maternity, and young child photographer on the East Coast of the United States.

00:00:59:05 – 00:01:31:02

Something I really love about Oleksandra ‘s business is how she’s able to bring her clients back, not only for a second photo shoot, but sometimes a third and a fourth. And often they turn into her lifelong clients. Oleksandra shares with us how she prices her sessions and how they build on one another. She talked about her successes, things she struggled with. And I really loved hearing about how she incorporates her own style into her brand. And her style is super simplistic, but very beautiful and very elegant. OK, please enjoy my interview with Oleksandra Stelmah. Hi, Oleksandra.

00:01:31:04 – 00:01:32:26

Welcome to the Portrait System.

00:01:33:22 – 00:01:36:06

Hi, Nikki. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

00:01:36:20 – 00:01:45:22

Yeah, I’m really excited to have you here. We often have, you know, obviously we we have a ton of portrait photographers, but I’m super happy to chat to you as a newborn photographer.

00:01:46:05 – 00:01:49:13

Yes. I’m excited to chat with you, too.

00:01:49:28 – 00:02:26:28

Yeah, a lot of times, I think I think sometimes people get the idea that in order to kind of use the business model that we talk about or to do, you know, in-person sales or to have larger sales or, you know, you have to shoot a specific genre. And it’s so not true. Like you can apply what people teach either on this podcast or through Sue’s education to any genre. And so so, yeah, this will be really cool to hear about how you do it. So, yeah, maybe maybe just give our listeners a little overview of what you shoot and what you focus on mostly now.

00:02:27:11 – 00:02:57:11

Hmm. The type of session that I shoot and what I specialize on is the maternity, newborn, first year and family. OK. OK. So my ideal client is someone who comes to me to book a maternity and newborn and then who comes back to do a six months Citra session, first year, and then every year or every year. Every other year. They do family photos with me or there is a second baby. Right.

00:02:58:02 – 00:02:59:11

That they will come back for.

00:02:59:24 – 00:03:14:24

This is so smart because because it’s like basically you have a client for the next 10 years, at least. It’s not just one shoot and then you never hear from them again. I mean, it sounds like you have. Like a whole, you know, lifelong client almost.

00:03:15:01 – 00:03:27:14

Yes, my focus is to build a relationship with that client and to be present in their life and to see their children grow and become the kind of almost like a member of their family. Mm hmm.

00:03:27:18 – 00:03:39:26

Mm hmm. OK, this is good. And I want to hear all about you as we chat more. I want to hear about how you do this and how you incentivize. But before we get to that point. Mm hmm. Let’s talk a little bit about how and when you started your business.

00:03:40:09 – 00:04:17:21

Yes. So I started my business four and a half years ago, and I was never someone who really liked camera or photos. I never thought about that at all. My background is finance. That’s what I went to school for. My got my masters in finance. And I spent 13 years in investment banking, working as a finance manager, making good money, but was never happy. I remember calling my mom and saying, like, what I’m doing here, this is only for a paycheck.

00:04:18:07 – 00:04:46:00

Yeah. Yeah. But then slowly, somehow, as my life progressed, as I evolve, I found myself dancing. I taught ballroom dancing. And then when I first got pregnant, I really wanted I had this desire to create a unique toy or find a unique toy for my son. And I couldn’t. So then I remember my crochet skills and I crochet him a toy.

00:04:46:18 – 00:04:51:27

Oh, my gosh. So you taught ballroom dancing and you can crochet you a lot of skills.

00:04:52:08 – 00:05:22:26

That’s cool. And then they become so popular, those toys that my friends, my husband was like, you need to photograph them and start selling them online. And we happened to buy a nice camera because we were going away to a very important time for us. And yeah. Is that a photograph in my toys? I bought this cheap, cheap, light, cheap, cheap background, and it started from there. I started photographing toys. And then as my son was born, my first son was born.

00:05:23:09 – 00:05:42:24

I hired a newborn photographer and just fell in love. Like how she puts her art eye into this process. Right. How flexible her schedule is. She doesn’t have to be trapped in the corporate world from 9:00 to 5:00. Mm hmm. Yes. And how can she be her own boss, you know?

00:05:43:07 – 00:06:14:12

Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. There are so many of our listeners. I know I was in that position where I was in a job that was burning me out. And yeah, it was a stable paycheck, but it was never going to create me any sort of like financial freedom or time freedom. That was what I was most after, was not having to be working that, you know, 40 to 50 hours a week at a place that I was unhappy at. Yeah. So OK. So a couple questions, because you are not originally from the United States.

00:06:14:26 – 00:06:31:11

No, I moved to the U.S. after high school. So I remember there was this graduation and everyone is crying and getting excited about the university. And I’m crying because I know I’m moving to US and leaving everyone and everything behind.

00:06:31:16 – 00:06:33:00

Right. Oh, wow.

00:06:33:19 – 00:06:39:06

Yes. I moved here 17 years ago right after high school. So now you know my age.

00:06:40:24 – 00:06:44:16

And where do you live now? Well, you’re way younger than me. Where do you live now?

00:06:44:25 – 00:06:50:10

I live in New York, just like around outside of Manhattan, Westchester County.

00:06:50:21 – 00:06:57:27

Gotcha. OK, so you had your first baby and you said that was in 2017, right? 2017.

00:06:58:08 – 00:07:06:00

He was born 2015. So that’s when I first was introduced to like for newborn photography. Mm hmm.

00:07:06:20 – 00:07:09:15

OK, so did you do newborn photos for him?

00:07:09:28 – 00:07:47:26

Yes, I hired a professional photographer. She came to us. I observed her. I was really impressed, you know, all the swaddling, all the wrapping. And then from there, I was like, oh, nice. But I was so overwhelmed with being a new mom. Right. And going back to work after three months that I just put that idea on the side until 2017. I would say when I really had this, like enough. I felt like I have this mom guilt that I cannot be at home with this little baby that just came on the walk or even to the doctor, you know, for doctor.

00:07:48:15 – 00:08:19:20

Yes. Yes. That I. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I remember thinking after I had my kids, I don’t know how I would have done it if I was still a full time social worker. Yeah. Like exactly what you said, just getting your kid to an appointment is really hard when you have a full time. I just give a lot of credit to parents who work full time moms and dads who work full time and a traditional nine to five job because even just shopping for your kid’s clothes, it’s like you have to do everything on the weekend and it’s hard. It’s hard for sure.

00:08:20:07 – 00:08:32:03

Yes. OK, so you were photographing the toys and then is that when you realized, like, OK, you know, maybe I could photograph people or, you know, at what point did you decide I’m going to start photographing babies?

00:08:32:13 – 00:09:03:26

So that was around twenty seventeen when I finally felt, OK, maybe I can start looking for something that will fulfill my heart and that is more flexible. Right. And I still remember back in my head, oh, my God, I was so impressed with newborn process. Right. How that photographer photograph my child. So then one of the evenings I was online just Googling like newborn workshops. And I saw one of the photographers, newborn photographers coming to New York to do a workshop.

00:09:04:06 – 00:09:34:14

So that’s when I was like, you know, I’ll just go and see. But I honestly didn’t understand the camera. Nothing. And I remember she told me when, like, why are you here? You need to learn. Like you need to learn light and then learn camera and then like newborn photography. And I said, I want to first even understand if I like it, you know, the process and if it’s something that I can pursue and I really liked it. And then I went to Ukraine and I took a few one on one mentors.

00:09:34:19 – 00:09:50:17

I hired a few one and one mentors to really like got into the details and specifics of newborn photography. And then a lot of my friends happened to have babies that year. And I just use their babies as my models for a friends and for babies.

00:09:51:15 – 00:09:54:17

But we have to start somewhere. Everyone starts somewhere.

00:09:54:24 – 00:10:06:29

Yes. And that’s how I started. I just 2017, half of 2018, I was just shooting for free, which I wanted to say in this episode. Don’t do that.

00:10:08:27 – 00:10:31:01

But that was me one and a half year shooting like hundred babies for three, because I am a very big perfectionist. And I’m like, I can’t take money because I don’t feel like I’m an hour like I’m a professional yet, you know. Back at that time. But now I totally have different mentality. Yeah. So it was like charity.

00:10:31:18 – 00:10:57:07

Yeah. But, you know, there is I feel like because I did that, too, I did free shoots. And I feel like there is something you can learn, you know, from doing the free shoots. It’s like the pressure isn’t on where you don’t have to like if you mess up, it’s OK because they know you’re doing it for free. But I feel like there’s a limit that you should put on it to how many like once you know what you’re doing, stop doing it for free. Yes, yes, yes.

00:10:57:19 – 00:10:59:16

Yeah, I agree. I didn’t.

00:11:00:10 – 00:11:03:14

Oh, you didn’t? OK, so you keep going with the free shoots?

00:11:03:22 – 00:11:39:00

I did until I realized I can’t do this anymore, because, you know, it has to be an equal exchange. Right. And at the beginning, it was because I was gaining experience. Well, when you get to a certain point and you feel comfortable, but yet you have this fear that blocking you to start asking for money. Right. In exchange for the service. Then I was like, no, I’m not like energizing myself. I don’t have this like satisfaction from this. If I did right. Like having this is like photographing these babies and cuddling with them.

00:11:39:02 – 00:11:55:20

It was very fulfilling to me, but I didn’t feel it being taken seriously. Right. Yes. Yes. I didn’t feel like I can get myself to the next level until I can position myself as professional and get paid for that service.

00:11:56:03 – 00:12:03:10

Mm hmm. So so what did you do from there as far as you know, OK, you’re burned out from shooting, shooting free. How did you start charging at that point?

00:12:03:23 – 00:12:26:08

So I start posting my work on Facebook moms groups and just not like calling them a and I will shoot your baby book your session just showing. Oh, look how cute this baby is, right? Just getting myself out there, but very neutral. And then people start reaching out to me. And I started offering very low cost sessions, which, again, I don’t recommend.

00:12:27:28 – 00:12:43:00

And slowly I start gaining like a paid clientele and shooting on the weekend while working Monday through Friday. And corporate job having a baby and also teaching dancing. Oh, my God.

00:12:43:02 – 00:12:45:22

Yes, it must have been exhausted.

00:12:46:06 – 00:13:11:29

I was. But, you know, once you’re in that routine, it’s like normality for you, to be honest. It becomes normality. Yes, you are exhausted, but it’s like, OK, this is my routine. Right. And then as I was getting better and better and better, I start raising money. And then, as you know, you start losing your previous clients. Right. And and you start from all over again. And it’s not good.

00:13:13:03 – 00:13:54:13

OK, let’s talk about that a little bit. You said you don’t recommend people charging, you know, next to nothing. And I think a lot of us did that at the beginning, for sure. Yes. So one thing that some people did and again, this goes back to like Sue’s business model, is if you start with your pricing higher, but you’re still super uncomfortable with that, you can give like a gift voucher for five hundred dollars or three hundred dollars or whatever to bring that price down. But then you’re not in the situation that you were in, in that I was in, where all of a sudden you’re just raising your prices, where if your prices are already a little bit higher, where you want them to be, if you give them that gift voucher, you don’t have to raise your pricing.

00:13:54:15 – 00:13:56:07

You just stop giving the gift voucher.

00:13:56:11 – 00:14:29:28

Yes, I think this is a much better approach to how I approach that. Yes. But, you know, you learn from your mistakes. It’s painful. When I am approached and asked. Right, like how to do this. I’m just starting out. I always say like start charging and don’t start with low prices because it’s much harder to get yourself like you going to start all over again if you start raising prices and offer a new price list, right? Pretty much.

00:14:30:15 – 00:14:31:00

Mm hmm.

00:14:31:24 – 00:14:51:02

So, you know, oftentimes we get our next clients from a referral base, from your previous client. And if you’re only charging two hundred, five hundred dollars, whatever, and those people are like, oh, yeah, I did my session for 500. And then now all of a sudden you’re charging twelve hundred, it gets a little tricky. Exactly. For the referrals.

00:14:51:10 – 00:15:10:25

And I was charging very low like one seventy five, I remember. Yeah. Yes. And then all of a sudden, five hundred, you know, and people didn’t understand. And the ones that they referred to, they were common based on the 175 price impression. Right? Hmm. I do not recommend it.

00:15:11:03 – 00:15:14:28

So how did you then start finding your new clients at your higher pricing?

00:15:15:25 – 00:15:46:00

So as I was shooting still at home, I had this fear of like I don’t have a professional studio set up a how can I charge someone who comes to normal? Right. We often hear this. How can we charge like this high price tag when I shoot at home in my basement, in my living room. Right. And I have clients who’d been with me since day one, but maybe like only five of them. Right. It’s not like I converted half of my clients. But those five clients are loyal clients.

00:15:46:02 – 00:16:17:06

And they saw me shooting and leaving the room, shooting in the basement. And then they saw me come into this professional studio that I have now. Right. High end studio. Mhm. So 2019, it was summertime. My job bought another company. So there was a merger and they told me your job will be relocating to Colorado. So you either go there and have a job or you are without a job. And I’m like, I can’t go to Colorado.

00:16:17:14 – 00:16:47:22

My family’s here. My husband has a good job here. I just can’t. So then I was like under shock or panic. I start applying for new jobs in finance field. Right. And as I’m applying, I’m like what I’m doing. I can’t imagine going back to corporate. I can’t imagine interviewing in this offices, listening to this people. I just can’t. So I stopped applying. I came to my husband. I said, you know, I made enough money all this year since ‘17.

00:16:47:28 – 00:16:58:06

I think I’m going to give it a shot. You support me and then see what will happen with photography if it doesn’t work. Banks are not going anywhere. I can go back in a year. Right.

00:16:58:20 – 00:16:59:26

Right. Mhm.

00:17:00:14 – 00:17:32:19

And at that time, I was looking for a place to expand my dancing job, like my dancing instructor lessons. So I was looking for a place for my dancing business. And that day when I went to look for a place for my dancing lessons, I found a studio for my photography business. I didn’t have any intentions to have a professional space at that time, but I saw the space. I called my husband. He was working from home and come and see this space.

00:17:32:21 – 00:17:54:05

I’m in love and I want to lease it. And he came. Wow. Yes. And I was like, I am doing this. I just felt like I am doing this. And he’s like, OK, but you understand it’s your liability. You’re not going to take money from the family budget. It’s totally on you. I’m like, yes, I know. And yes, I signed the same day lease within two hours.

00:17:55:25 – 00:17:56:19

That’s awesome.

00:17:57:11 – 00:18:15:15

And at the same time, I switched completely to IPS in-person sales. I like stopped offering packages. I stopped offering all-inclusive digital sonly and I went right into IPS. Wow. Mm hmm.

00:18:16:04 – 00:18:33:00

Now, did you already know how to do that or was it something that you still had to learn? So IPS for people listening, if you don’t know what that is, it’s in-person sales. And I think I know for me and for, you know, a lot of people I’ve spoken with, it can be really daunting. It’s like, oh, how do I do it? And it feels scary. And so did you already know how?

00:18:33:06 – 00:18:43:29

So I was listening a lot to Sue Bryce education app. And then I also signed up to the newborn photography in person. Sales mentor.

00:18:44:01 – 00:18:47:00

Oh, nice, nice. Yes. Who was that with? Yes.

00:18:47:04 – 00:19:23:08

Gabby Chung. OK, I don’t know who that is. Yes. She’s just really into newborn photography, right. I was in California. And I just follow blindly her scripts, her price menu. And it was very scary. Like she offered three price menus, like low, medium and high. And and of course, one was low, right. I was the medium. But it’s me, I guess. And I remember that at the time, while we were like fixing up my studio, I had first like in-person consultation at Starbucks.

00:19:23:12 – 00:19:35:08

Like in some it was summer, August summer. I met my first IPS client at Starbucks. I brought my samples, sold her everything. And I was shaking, you know, like, oh,

00:19:35:10 – 00:19:36:10

I also

00:19:36:25 – 00:19:40:02

I was afraid of my own prices, you know. Yeah.

00:19:40:04 – 00:19:42:16

Yes. I can relate so much.

00:19:42:18 – 00:20:15:26

I’m like, I need to I need fresh air. I need water. But I did it, you know, and she booked it. And then from there, I’m like, slowly, slowly. Yeah. I got more clients. And then from there, I never looked back. I never went back to corporate. I went full time into photography, doing in-person sales, offering more than just negatives to my clients. Right. And and I really focus on quality over quantity.

00:20:16:10 – 00:20:25:03

Like I always approach every client like client for life. Like I don’t see them as one transaction deal.

00:20:25:05 – 00:20:27:23

Never. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So smart.

00:20:27:29 – 00:20:50:06

Yes. And I can sense now when someone messaged me like whatever they put in the message, when they call me and leave me voicemail, I can sense. Yeah, this is a price shopper client. This is not my client. And yes, this is my client. Right. I just know now, like intuitively or from the experience, I don’t know how it works, but I know.

00:20:50:24 – 00:21:14:02

Yeah. It’s so funny you say that. I want to back up really quick. When you said you met the person at Starbucks. I just I want people to hear that because you don’t have to be meeting at the fancy studio. You don’t have to have the newest and the best and the greatest. I did so many photo viewings at a coffee shop before I had a space that I that it made sense to do photo viewings at it. You can do it anywhere.

00:21:14:08 – 00:21:48:16

Yes. And I highly advise again, it’s totally up to you. What are you going to do. But I highly advise if you just starting up and you have very low budget. Do it at home. Like it’s a very big liability and it’s stressful to have that monthly payment, you know? Mm hmm. It is. Yeah, it’s less risky. It’s less stressful when you do it at home, you don’t have that liability. And you can focus your energy on becoming better right in front, mastering your skills, mastering your business side.

00:21:49:03 – 00:22:10:13

Yes, it is a difference when someone comes to a professional studio, because I just like see myself when I go and do my nails at someone’s home. And when they go to a professional salon. Right. It is a difference. But if you are a good master and you provide quality that becomes very low impact, do you do it at home or in the studio?

00:22:10:24 – 00:22:23:24

So let’s say you do have a price shop or you do have you know, you can tell that someone is really looking for that quality. How are you within your marketing, trying to attract the clients that you want?

00:22:24:11 – 00:22:58:16

So I honestly don’t do a lot of marketing because I have two little kids at home which just bought a house and this like all this construction going on. So my biggest marketing is Google. OK, I put a lot of money into Google and Google ads, and I don’t list any prices whatsoever on my website. I just literally yesterday put starting price because I was overwhelmed with inquiries and just don’t have time to call everyone. So I just finally put like listed my starting price.

00:22:59:05 – 00:23:31:15

But I, I don’t know if you’re going to publish this, but but I filter them I like if someone messages me and doesn’t say, hi, what is your availability? But the only thing that I see is what’s the cost? I just emailed them the price list and that’s it. If it works for them, then I’ll call them right. If they disappear, they disappear. But when they get a message was says, hello, I really love your work. I saw your website, I saw your Instagram, meaning they learned about me, they learnt about my style.

00:23:31:17 – 00:23:42:20

Right. I want to know what would be the cost approximate and what is your availability? Do you have any spots left then? I know. Like, OK, I want to call this client, right? Yes.

00:23:42:27 – 00:23:57:04

Yes, I love that. I love that so much, Oleksandra, because I know just personally for me, as as a consumer, if I call you or email you and say how much, I just want you to tell me how much.

00:23:57:18 – 00:23:59:18

Yes. My shopping. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:59:20 – 00:24:30:12

I just want to know how much, you know, I’m not trying to get you to sell me like I know how much I want to spend. I’m either going to, you know, spend it or not. It doesn’t matter what spiel you give me. I’m not going to you know, however exactly what you said, if I’m like, you know what? I really love what you do and I want to I want to hear more about it, then I’m not price shopping like it’s it’s just a different mentality. And that’s okay. Like there are times when as a consumer, I am only going to pay X amount. So just tell me.

00:24:30:14 – 00:24:46:24

And if you don’t tell me, I’m going to be irritated. I’m going to move on to someone else. Yes. So that’s just kind of how how it goes, I think, with consumers. And I love that you’re in tune with that. And if someone just ask how much you have to tell them and they might say, oh, OK, I’ll book you, or they might not like you said. So I love that.

00:24:46:29 – 00:25:16:27

Yes. And, you know, there was a period of my I would say career where if someone says how much I would get so frustrated and I would just say, I’m sorry, I’m fully booked. Like seriously, there were like three months of my career where I was saying that. And then one time my husband heard that. And he’s like, why are you doing that? It could be a potential client who just doesn’t want to deal with all this phone calls and e-mails. Just send them price menu and see and then let you know what you’re right. Maybe there is one of them who will book me.

00:25:17:12 – 00:25:44:06

Mm hmm. Totally. Because like I’m thinking about a situation when my. Husband and I and we just had one son at the time, and my in-laws, we took a trip to Hawaii. And I want to do family photos while we were there. And that was my first question was, all right. You know, I want to book you how much. And it wasn’t even I knew this is the photographer I wanted. It didn’t matter how much I knew, whatever they said, I was just going to be like, OK, fine. Go had. They said, oh, I’m booked. Like how you used to. They would have lost me as a client.

00:25:44:09 – 00:25:45:22

Exactly. You know, so

00:25:45:24 – 00:26:03:03

you just you never know someone’s intentions. Mm hmm. So. Right. Yeah. OK, so it sounds like you have kind of two ways of approaching when you get an inquiry. If their first question, their only question is how much you send them your pricing. And if they want to learn more about the experience, then you get them on a phone call.

00:26:03:19 – 00:26:36:29

Yes, I call them in 15 minutes. Like right away, as long as the inquiry comes just minutes later, I call them unless I’m at the session and it’s been three hours. Then I will message them. I am big on messaging. All right. So I’ll message them because I believe emails can be like overseen or can go to spam. So I’ll just use their phone number. I have this three typed message change, like a little bit of language based on their inquiry. Right. And just show them email and say the date, the times that I can talk today or tomorrow.

00:26:37:04 – 00:26:40:14

OK, wait, where are you messaging them through? You said you don’t do it on email.

00:26:40:25 – 00:27:17:25

Now I’ll just message through my phone. Oh, like text message? Yes. OK, I’ll text messaged them saying, hi, this is Oleksandra. And like I would like to learn more about what are you looking for? Right. What services are you looking for? How can I help you? Please let me know the best time within this time frame to call you, right? Mm hmm. And then I just hop on a call and then I have a script where I warming up, getting to know them a little bit. Right. Asking them about their pregnancy, what they looking for, have they been photographed before? And then I ask them questions like discovery questions, who they would like to include in their session.

00:27:17:27 – 00:27:35:24

Right. And then I ask them this vision questions. How would you like to use this image of what are you doing? Why do you need this images? Right. Even if they don’t know, but they start thinking about it’s like you planting the seeds, right? You start selling yourself and your services from that phone call.

00:27:36:02 – 00:27:48:21

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about your services. And, you know, how does this work? Like, what do you include with your services that you provide for people? And, you know, how how does a shoot with you work?

00:27:49:01 – 00:28:25:18

So the first step is the session fee, right? The session fee will include the design consultation. This is the time when they get to know me a little bit more as a photographer. Right. Put the face to the name. I get to know them, learn more about their family, this birth. Right, the pregnancy. And then we go over the looks, the wardrobe, the props outfits that we will use for their session. And that’s where I also show them print products that I offer so they can start planning what they want to purchase for themselves.

00:28:26:09 – 00:29:00:04

And they get to see the studio also in person. Or we on Zoom nowadays I try to do a lot of them, we on Zoom.  Hmm. Corona shifted the approach. Right. And after that is the actual photo shoot. And during that photo shoot, I try to do six to eight different looks and I try to make sure that those are very different images. Right. Because for me, it’s strategic how I approach the session. So the more variety I have, the more chances I have to sell the image.

00:29:00:06 – 00:29:00:21

Right.

00:29:00:29 – 00:29:22:27

That’s it. Yes. Oh, really? I’m so with you on that. I actually just just finished filming a personal branding course for the Portrait Masters store. And that’s something that I teach through throughout is the more variety, the more outfits you can squeeze in there, the more you’re likely to sell. So it’s just so funny that I’m talking about it with personal branding. You’re talking about it with maternity and newborn. And it just it works.

00:29:23:03 – 00:29:56:21

Yes, it works. Even if you change, like when I shoot newborns. When I use the same background, even if it’s a different pose as a parent, they don’t see that. They see that they see one color and they think it’s one image and they will not choose those two images. Right. But if I change the color along with the pose and add a little bit of prop, it’s a totally different look. And they see it as a separate image, you know, and I know what is sellable.

00:29:56:23 – 00:30:27:25

Now, I know a sibling shot, if there is an older sibling for sure, is going to sell, all right, I know mommy and me will sell. I encourage them and push kind of push it to do family photo, because, first of all, it will sell. Second of all, they will never regret. Oh, I wish I did it for my child. You know, when they come back six months later and how I sell it, I tell them, just do it. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it. That’s the beauty of working with me. You don’t commit to anything upfront, you know.

00:30:28:13 – 00:30:32:01

And yeah, so so they just that all they pay is the session fee.

00:30:32:06 – 00:30:37:09

Yes, they paid the session fee. This is the only fee that they pay upfront. Mm hmm.

00:30:37:11 – 00:30:58:29

OK, so there’s two things I want to talk about. One is your pricing in general and how you structure it. And two is how do you incentivize to get them to come back? So if they’re starting with a maternity and then how do you get them to come back for the newborn and then come back for their first year and come back for the family? Like, you know, how do you keep them coming back? I guess. But let’s start with the pricing structure.

00:30:59:26 – 00:31:31:03

So my pricing structure is very similar to how Sue Bryce teaches us. I have collections and I also have alacarte. So you have an option to purchase your images individually? Right. Per our alacarte price or as a collection? As a bundle, which is a much better value, see, right. a la carte. I always say it’s more for someone who’s interested in a wall art like one piece wall art. Right. Or who wants to buy only one or two images. And most of my clients never go that route

00:31:31:07 – 00:32:01:23

Most of my clients purchase the images as a collection. And the collection is a combination of Digitals print format and also different bonuses and vouchers. So, for example, I have top middle and low collection. And all of the images you purchase, you receive in the digital and print format, print formats, you can decide, do you want a keepsake box? You know, photography studio. I use those with matted prints or you want an album, right. And then they choose.

00:32:01:25 – 00:32:14:29

I always tell them, keep in mind, an album with less than 15 images. I don’t offer that product of 15 images or more because it’s just like not I don’t know where it looks very poor.

00:32:15:12 – 00:32:21:22

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It’s hard. You can only do so many pages and it just doesn’t. Yeah, I know what you mean.

00:32:21:24 – 00:32:58:16

Yeah, I say album comes with 15 images in up. I don’t even get into details. Why? Yeah. And then I also offer them a complimentary session within 12 months for my top and middle package. So next in line. So I said you just did a newborn session and you purchased in my middle collection. My collection gives you a voucher for the next session in line, which means six months. So when you come back in six months, your session is covered. And I explain that what six months means and why you want to do six months and not wait until 12 months.

00:32:59:06 – 00:33:34:15

I showed them one of my recent six month session. Right. So they can see a full gallery and they start getting in love with it? And then I showed them 12 months and I showed them how much the baby changes between six months and 12 months. And I always say this, listen, you don’t have to buy a top or middle collection for six months. You can buy only my petite collection and then do another petit for 12 months. But I would rather you capture your baby grows and do small collections, then just jump from newborn to 12 months and miss that period when they sat, when they were calm.

00:33:34:17 – 00:33:43:11

And you can have a nice, beautiful portrait of them versus them at 12 months running around. Right. And you just pretty much get like a lot of candid portraits.

00:33:43:24 – 00:33:55:28

Right. Right. This is so smart. And what I love as well that you said, Oleksandra, is how they have to use it within six months when you put a time frame on it. Yes. That changes everything.

00:33:56:12 – 00:34:21:15

Mm hmm. And they started giving them a physical gift voucher, because when you just say your package comes with complimentary session, I feel like people don’t understand what they get. And just they just heard that. And that’s it, you know. Mm hmm. And it went out of the window. But when they give them something physical and they touch it and feel like, oh, wow, I’m getting a voucher for three. Seventy five, right. Right.

00:34:21:29 – 00:34:37:07

And if they don’t use it, they lose it, then lose that. Three hundred seventy five dollars. Like if you tell them, like if you go to follow up and say, remember, you know, I don’t want you to lose that three hundred seventy five dollars, so make sure you use it within six months or whatever. It’s it’s such a good sales technique.

00:34:37:10 – 00:35:02:01

Yes. And it’s a lot of money to give away, I understand. But it’s already a repeat client, right? I’m saving on Google ads. I’m saving on SEO or I’m saving on the time. I’m spending for the call for the design consultation, both because repeat clients already is familiar with my process. Right. So I would rather recruit my repeat client than always get a new one is so much harder.

00:35:02:11 – 00:35:28:03

Oh, I agree. You don’t have to go over the pricing structure again and get to know them again. It really this is it’s so smart what you’re doing. As long as you really love to shoot each, you know, the maternity, newborn family, that sort of thing, I think some people just don’t want to shoot babies or maternity or whatever. But it’s just figuring out. Whatever works for you and what is it that you can bring them back in for again and again? You’re right. It is absolutely the best.

00:35:28:12 – 00:35:58:23

Yes. And then there also to finish my collections, I include an ala carte credit that will expire at the ordering appointment. So with my middle collection, for example, I have a three hundred dollar credit to spend on any wall art purchase at that day, on that day. The ordering appointment. And the way I price my wall art credit is that I will make still money and they get something right, but that incentivize them to spend more with me and also purchase a wall art.

00:35:58:25 – 00:36:05:06

So put their photos on the walls. Right. And not just in in the drawer.

00:36:05:08 – 00:36:08:15

And like you said, it expires at the ordering session.

00:36:08:17 – 00:36:18:26

I tell them. So they like. Can we think about it? I’m like, yes, but you will have to pay full price. You will not be able to use this voucher and they look OK.

00:36:18:29 – 00:36:28:02

So, so smart. So smart. I love it. I love it. I love it. OK, so how much are people spending? You know, what are your your ranges? You know, for your packages.

00:36:28:12 – 00:36:42:19

So my packages ranged between fifteen hundred to forty two hundred. On average, my client spend three thousand. If my client I made it sounds horrible. But if my my client doesn’t spend three thousand, I’m like, oh my God, I lost it.

00:36:44:22 – 00:37:00:29

But I would say like eight out of 10 clients for newborn photography will spend three thousand or more, maybe inter-session much less or more of the same, but newborn. And I’m confident in that. I’m going to sell my middle collection.

00:37:01:05 – 00:37:22:20

Right. Right. So your average then you said is three thousand? Yes. Wow. That’s really, really great. Yes. And then so if someone spends, let’s just pick your average client. How many photos are they getting? And what I know you said they can choose between the box or the album and that sort of thing, but just like what is included in general in that.

00:37:22:22 – 00:37:56:01

So for three thousand dollars, they’re going to get 15 fully retouched images. High resolution. I don’t limit to the ype. Right. I just give them high res. Wholly fully retouched. I recharge them. So detailed. It’s like unbelievable. But still giving them natural. Right. Hmm. And then they also receive the keepsake box. And I customize the title like what I what they want. Last name or baby name. They get all 15 matted prints. They get voucher for three seventy five and they get three hundred to spend on wall art.

00:37:56:16 – 00:38:21:27

Yes. All right. Very cool. Mm hmm. And then as far as the next sessions, are there their next family shoot or their six month shoot or, you know, if they adjust on maternity, they do newborn and whatever. Is it the exact same pricing and they just get the session fee free, but then. Well, as a complimentary. I shouldn’t say that even as a gift voucher. And then from there on out, it’s just the same pricing for all of your shoots.

00:38:22:07 – 00:38:54:26

Yes. Every session is going through the same price structure. Yes. OK. For example, because I do newborn session for three hours and cake smash only for one and a half hour. I will provide a cake. Right? OK. Yes. And for example, for maternity, I will provide hair and makeup because I do maternity on average, two hours. The way I like structured the setups and poses that I use, I am done in two hours. And I see that a client, a maternity client gets tired after two hours, to be honest.

00:38:54:28 – 00:38:55:13

Yeah.

00:38:55:15 – 00:38:59:21

Yeah, for sure. Do you include any sort of hair and makeup, styling or anything like that?

00:39:00:04 – 00:39:34:05

So there is a beautiful salon in my building. I got lucky that I work with, so I’ll handle desk scheduling. But they pay separately. I talked to the owner and she gave me like a deal for my clients only. They only pay one forty five for hair and makeup. I think it’s a good deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I tell them like I handle your hair makeup appointment, but you it’s like it’s a separate fee to the salon. I did include it before, but I don’t think they appreciate. And to be honest, though, I would rather than pay it and see that they spend what they spend.

00:39:34:11 – 00:39:37:22

But I’ll handle the appointment and all they need to do is just show up.

00:39:38:06 – 00:39:58:14

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. And then you also talked about doing a design consultation, and I know you said a lot of it is you just getting to know them and that sort of thing. But, you know, as far as like props go and outfits and all of that, are you helping them choose what they’re going to wear? Do you provide any of these, you know, items in your studio? Tell me about that.

00:39:58:18 – 00:40:33:27

Yes, I provide everything we need to complete their session, like everything for newborn. All they need to do is just bring baby in the car seat for maternity. All I tell her you need to do is have a good night’s sleep, a fulfilling breakfast and just show up and I handle the rest. Like, of course, you bring underwear, right. And the bride. But I’ll handle all the wardrobe. And then that’s why a. This design consultation is because I want to see her figure. I want to see her skin tone and then as an artist, and you know how it feels like you can picture her in your head already, like how you see what colors you see on her.

00:40:33:29 – 00:40:48:03

Right. I automatically know, like what dress I’ll use on her and then I’ll show her that. Right. And during the session, I tell her, let’s do this. And she likes it. We’ll do it. She doesn’t like it. We don’t do it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It’s always a communication.

00:40:48:21 – 00:41:21:03

Well, I’m looking through your Instagram right now, and it’s very like super beautiful and very like simple but elegant. So like, you know, for example, this you know, there’s like black outfits, white, like I feel like you keep everything pretty neutral. Like I’m looking at this one maternity. She’s so beautiful and it’s just like a black top, long sleeve top and black underwear or she’s sitting in a chair and one of them. Olga Yeah. Like what do you do? Do you provide that outfit for her?

00:41:21:11 – 00:41:32:03

Yes. All she had to her in the underwear. And then I have a crop top. We did her hair and makeup at the salon and then she had her jewelry. Right. I have some jewelry in the studio also.

00:41:32:12 – 00:42:03:19

Yeah, this is really it is it’s simple and clean and beautiful and very like. I guess simple isn’t even really the word I’m looking for. So I kind of one minimal minimalistic? Yes. Or minimal? That’s exactly the word I was looking for. Thank you. I really love it. It’s really beautiful. And that’s cool because I feel like it’s easier to stock your studio wardrobe with things like that. Especially you can take that home and wash it. No problem where some of these big dresses that going to the dry cleaners and the sequins and the whole night, I’m like, oh, gosh, where this would be so much easier.

00:42:03:21 – 00:42:19:09

You could even just have like a little dresser and just throw them in there. It doesn’t need to take up a whole lot of space. And I really love this approach. You know, for people wondering how can I stock my studio with clothes and not have you know, if you don’t have this huge space or a ton of money like this is this is easy, I feel like.

00:42:19:13 – 00:42:56:04

Yes. Yes. And that was another thing that I did when I moved to the studio. At first when I started, I did all the flowers, all the colors, everything you want, you know, but like I was trying to satisfy a client and it’s nothing wrong with it. But then I’m like, but I don’t like it. It’s not that it’s wrong or not beautiful. It’s just not me. I like you have to see my closet. I don’t have a lot of stuff. And I’m like, OK, you know what I’m going to do? I’m just going to do it how I want. Of course, I ask my client wishes and requests, but I tell them I shoot very minimalistic style.

00:42:56:13 – 00:43:29:10

And I only offer black, white and beige colors. And if you really want a color, I still have a few props and we can use them. But just keep in mind that and they like I love it. I want timeless, I want minimalistic. I want those colors. And maybe because it’s a newborn, they already are so cute that you don’t need a lot. Right? Right. I don’t know. But I think like people see my style and they want it. And that’s why they’re rich. They’re the ones who are calling me and saying, I want a mermaid cake smash.

00:43:29:12 – 00:43:51:12

If you look on my Instagram, it’s basically white background, baby. And the cake naked cake right now is the client calls me, it says, I want a mermaid theme. I understand they didn’t see my website. And then I said, sure, but you will have to provide everything because in my style I only do white backdrop and naked cake. I can shoot in your style, but you’ll have to get everything.

00:43:52:12 – 00:44:23:23

Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. And also what we put out there is what we’re going to attract. So I have Exactly. you’re probably going to attract people who want more of a minimal style. And like you said, there’s nothing wrong with like, trust me, I love a good sequined gown and I love some big hair flowers, you know, that sort of thing. Yes. But, you know, I also love the minimalist. It’s like whatever you want and what you want to attract for client base, you just have to show it and put it out there. And I think you’ve done that really brilliantly. Thank you. Yeah, you’re welcome.

00:44:24:15 – 00:44:46:13

Very cool. OK, so clearly you’re really successful with this. Is this something that, you know, have you replace your income with, you know, financial year old finance job or, you know, is it something that you feel like you can continue on doing for a long time as it’s, you know, keeping you afloat financially like all of that?

00:44:46:23 – 00:45:09:13

Yes. So I definitely make more than what I was making at the bank, but I gained much more time than I had. Right. That’s so awesome. Which is irreplaceable. I don’t see myself doing anything else. I like I just don’t I think I’ll do this until I can until they put me in bed and say you can’t get up anymore.

00:45:11:06 – 00:45:41:08

And I want to just I have this very big desire of becoming really, really known in my area. Like when someone thinks about newborn photographer in tri-state it’s Stelmah Photo. All right. That’s what I’m working on. And the other thing I want to share my experience and what mistakes I made with maybe primarily with like people who just starting out in newborn photography because it’s so much time and nerves and and everything that comes with it that you can avoid.

00:45:41:10 – 00:46:01:12

Right. If someone like guide you and help you. And I want to share my experience and provide recommendation and advice to someone who’s just starting out or someone who wants to change their model, how they approach it. Right. So I think I’ll I’ll start slowly getting myself into like education a little bit.

00:46:01:16 – 00:46:20:18

Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. You know, speaking of that, before before I go on to ask you the questions I always ask at the end, I do have one more question about the Google ads and how that’s how you do those. Is there a specific strategy you use for those? To me, it just feels like a black hole. Like I don’t even know what I would like. Google ads like how how do you make them work for you?

00:46:20:25 – 00:46:34:11

So I hire someone who does it for me. Right. OK. Yeah. And she just set ups everything. If you need it, I can share with you after this. It’s not as I’m sure she’s really good. Like she helped me within three months

00:46:34:21 – 00:46:40:23

to get to tell us. Tell us who it is, if you’re comfortable sharing. If she would be OK with that with you sharing her name on the podcast. Go for it.

00:46:41:03 – 00:46:58:08

Jenny Peter she’s in Colorado. OK, so it works with a lot of photographers, like a lot. And she helped me within three months. I was on top page number one on one of the three top ones in Westchester as a newborn photographer. Mm hmm.

00:46:58:11 – 00:47:02:06

Nice. That’s awesome. So it’s a lot of SEO, is what you’re saying, like.

00:47:02:08 – 00:47:09:10

Yes, a lot of SEO. And you do want that pay for Google ads because Google loves when you feed him.

00:47:09:24 – 00:47:16:14

Oh, totally. OK, so you aren’t necessarily doing these. You’re yourself you’re you just hired, though.

00:47:16:22 – 00:47:20:04

Yes, I am. Yeah. I don’t understand it at all.

00:47:21:01 – 00:47:50:06

I love it. And I love and I love that. That was your answer, because outsourcing is so easy and so worth it, like whether it’s retouching or, you know, SEO or Web design or designing your PDF or whatever that is, if it’s something you don’t want to do. You can always outsource it. And I know I don’t I don’t know what you spend on your, I guess, let’s ask, how much how much you think you spend on it and what would be a return on it. Do you have any idea?

00:47:50:17 – 00:48:09:01

So I know that it varies month by month, because sometimes I’ll have the campaigns right going on. But on average, it’s like seven fifty, I would say a month for Google ads. That’s not bad. And her service. Yes. Mm hmm. But again, it will vary probably based on what you should what style and how much work you need.

00:48:09:03 – 00:48:19:24

Right, right. Right. Yeah. OK. Very cool. I’m glad I asked that. Hopefully she’ll get some good business out of this, too, because I mean, yes, you know, we’re all about when we find someone good to talk about them.

00:48:19:26 – 00:48:47:27

So that’s good. She’s really good. I. Yes, I can talk enough about Jenny. And honestly, all of pretty much all of my clients are either repeat client or Google’s referral, maybe takes like third or fourth place for me. And it’s not because my client is not happy with my service, because they come back. Right. And they do multiple sessions with me. I don’t know what it is. I have to figure it out. But Google is number one. Yeah, Google is number one for me.

00:48:48:00 – 00:49:19:22

Very cool. I don’t hear that very often. So I personally have never put any effort whatsoever into my SEO and my Google and that sort of thing, because I’ve always just had the networking, the networking referrals. Yeah, because I always did that. But I really don’t anymore. And I still get referrals from it, which is amazing. But so yeah, that’s interesting. And yeah, I’m excited. I’m glad you said that. Cool. Well, thank you. And OK, so I have a couple more questions for you that I always ask at the end. Hmm. First one is what something you can’t live without when you’re doing your photo shoot?

00:49:20:00 – 00:49:40:02

I can’t live without those newborns if I don’t have the newborn in my session in a week. I’m so anxious Like I said, I’m seriously anxious. I’m like, get me this baby. I’ll shoot for free. I just joke. I don’t. But but I am anxious. Like I need to have one baby a week for sure. Oh, I love it.

00:49:40:17 – 00:49:45:16

I love it. Very cool. OK, so how do you spend your time when you aren’t working?

00:49:45:28 – 00:50:19:05

I constantly like learn more in terms of the business side of the photography and just catching I was to do list, but that always like I have to do this and that. Right. But then also spend time with my little boys, you know, trying to like educate them about life and provide them like nice childhood experience and create memories with them. Right. Mhm. I spend a lot of time with my mom. She’s my best friend and I know she’s not going to be here forever.

00:50:19:22 – 00:50:28:13

So I try to spend a. Lot of time with my mom, also like to the girls night out, you know, like and then my husband who also needs my time,

00:50:29:29 – 00:50:31:20

and then there’s him now and then

00:50:31:22 – 00:50:37:03

myself, my body. Right. I need to exercise for my mental well-being. Right.

00:50:37:13 – 00:50:49:21

Mhm. Absolutely. Absolutely. That all sounds great. That sounds a lot a lot like myself OK, so next question is, what is your favorite inspirational quote?

00:50:50:13 – 00:51:11:21

You know, I know you ask this question and I don’t have any inspirational quote like favorite ones, but I do have a saying that I always say about Prints. So I always say this. Print your images, because digitals are temporary and prints are generational. Mm hmm. And I always say this. Yeah.

00:51:11:25 – 00:51:21:03

Yeah. Very cool. There’s something so beautiful about seeing not only your work, but for your clients to see themselves and their family in print. It’s just a whole different brings a whole different emotion.

00:51:21:05 – 00:51:55:28

It’s just a different, different experience, different feel when they see their images printed and when they touch them for the first time and hold them for the first time. You know, I feel like, OK, I completed my job. I hated it when I was just doing digitals because then they go home. First of all, they are not so attached to me or we didn’t build a deeper relationship. Right. It was very high level transaction. Shoot. Here are your images online. I never see you again. Pretty much. What was this service where they come back for the ordering appointment? I see them three times.

00:51:56:00 – 00:52:28:08

I see them for design consultation. I see them for the photo shoot odering up. I see them already three times. Right. And then a fourth time when I deliver. So I deliver my client product. Most of the time I see them first time and we already like very close, you know, and with a lot of them, I build very close bond relationship, especially the ones who have children close age, like we can sometimes even have playdates, you know. That’s awesome. Yes, I try to always be on their mind.

00:52:28:21 – 00:52:36:04

And when I come to their house and see my work printed or when I see on Instagram that it’s hidden in there, you know, I’m like, oh, you know.

00:52:36:18 – 00:52:44:08

Hmm. That’s awesome. Very cool. And then last question about that is, what would you tell people who are just starting out

00:52:45:06 – 00:53:15:15

Don’t do for free charge a little bit, because then you are more appreciated and taken more seriously. I know there’s going to be always fear that I’m not going to get booked. I’m not going to have clients. But you need to work on that fear and understand that nothing is done overnight. It takes time. Right. And if you don’t have that client for one week or two to work on your skills, because when you get busy and it’s so true, I heard this for myself and I was like, this is not true.

00:53:15:21 – 00:53:47:18

They just say it because they successful. It’s easy for them. But no, when you get very busy, you don’t have time to develop yourself. You know, like there are so many things. I want to learn new things, but I just don’t have time unless I say I don’t take clients at this moment. But then you lose. You need that income, right? You have liabilities, bills to pay. So like be patient. I know it’s hard, but be patient. And I do believe that quality matters. Maybe not to the extent that we get crazy about and overthink, but quality does matter.

00:53:47:25 – 00:54:10:11

So do master your skill. You know, if you want to charge premium, you need to provide equal exchange like Sue Bryce always say. Right. You know, you can just learn from YouTube and then charge premium. It doesn’t work like that. And people feel it. People feel it. When you order a keepsake box from Italy, from Graphi Studio, or when you order something cheap from Alibaba, you know, and offer them.

00:54:10:14 – 00:54:27:10

Right. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Well, that’s great advice. Well, thank you. Oleksandra. I’m so happy I got to chat with you and know this has been really great. You gave some really important tips to people that I think they’re going to learn a lot. So I hope so.

00:54:27:12 – 00:54:32:04

Thank you. Yes, I really have a nice chat with your finally.

00:54:32:27 – 00:54:35:12

Oh, I forgot to ask, where can people find you online? Yes.

00:54:35:14 – 00:54:41:29

So Instagram Stelmah photo, Facebook Stelmah photo and website Stelmahphoto.com.

00:54:42:08 – 00:54:44:13

Awesome. And spell your last name as t

00:54:44:15 – 00:54:47:18

s t e l m a h.

00:54:48:00 – 00:54:53:22

Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you again. And I will see you online soon. Yes.

00:54:53:24 – 00:54:57:23

Thank you, guys. Have a good day. Okay, you too. Take care. Bye bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System Podcast. Your five-star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So, if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to SueBryceEducation.com, where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1,000 on-demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business, and self-value. 

There’s also the 90 Day Startup Challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to-do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that’s SueBryceEducation.com.